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Floarboard - searching for a minimal-solution (MIDI-Send / Noisegate)

midi noisegate noise gate floarboard tuner effect send

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#1 Smashcraaft

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:50 AM

Hi. One of my bandmates is searching for a minimal-solution to get his ENGL E660 Savage SE noiseless, which produces a lot of noise in HighGain.
The ENGL E660 Savage SE has a MIDI-Switch which allows to switch up to 4 chanels.
The Floarboard would be connected to the effect-send/return of the amp.
 

The budget device we are searching for should offer…

  1. MIDI-Send to switch the 4 amp chanels
  2. min. 4 footswitches for direct choice of 4 patches / chanels
  3. a descent Noisegate
  4. a descent Delay / Reverb
  5. maybe a Tuner

Which L6 Device would be the way to go in your opinion?

The POD XT Live, the M9 or something completely different? 


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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#2 Smashcraaft

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 03:16 AM

the XT LIVE would be a good choice for badget, it has midi, noise gate, delay/reverb and tuner..

 

as you know a used HD500 would be better quality for any of the above functions, eg the hard gate is the best noise gate L6 ever made till now

Thank you. The regular gate should be fine as long as its quality is similar to the one in the HD500. Does the XT Live has MIDI-Send per patch?


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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#3 Smashcraaft

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 03:52 AM

it seems that it's a bit tricky (surely not ideal) but you can make the XTL working as a midi controller..

 

give a read here: Changing Amp channels with POD Xt Live

 

in that regard the HD500 would be a much better/easy solution

Again I like to thank you for your research! In that thread it is a little bit unclear for me if the Xt Live can send a simple MIDI-program-change-value because the overall setup seems to be a little bit different.

The ENGL E660 Savage SE switches chanels via a little external box called "MIDI INTERFACE Z-7". It offers the possibility of selective control on 8 POLY channels or alternatively, the reception of all MIDI program changes from 01 to 100 via OMNI mode.

 

So from my understanding there is no need for a THROUGH-port or a external foot-controller because the Xt Live should send the change per patch.

I think I have to go into the details by reading the Xt-manual and/or trying the Software-Editor.


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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#4 Smashcraaft

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:39 AM

Sounds good. Sending a simple Omni-chanel program-change via MIDI should be no wizardry, because this is the simplest way to use MIDI at all, I guess. But maybe a Xt-user or super wise-man can give me some confirmation?
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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#5 Smashcraaft

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:13 AM

Is there a need for the 4CM in my construction?
The tone should be still come from the Engl (Preamp and Amplification) and only Noisegate and some effects should be routed into the effects-send/return. I am a little bit confused at the moment.
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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#6 rd2rk

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:39 PM

I looked at the Engl manual. Your problem is that the savage uses a proprietary db25 midi connector, and can only be controlled via midi when using the Engl pedal board. You can probably change the channels with multiple 1/4" switches (see manual), but it looks like a royal PITA and you'll never be able to duplicate the (considerable) functionality of the engl controller. You spent a pile for this amp, get the proper controller and do it right!
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#7 Smashcraaft

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:38 PM

@Nico: This table shows the commands to switch the POD Xt and does not explains how to send a MIDI-command per patch, doesn´t it?

@rd2rk: The "E660 Savage Spezial Edition" has a external proprietary MIDI-Interface called Z-7. This interface converts standard MIDI-changes to channel-switches

 

Hopefully I can find a Xt-User who has some experience with sending MIDI-program changes so I will not recommend a bad solution to my bandmate.

 

Thank you all  :)


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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#8 Smashcraaft

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 12:56 AM

This should answer my question…

 

 

RE: POD XT Live as MIDI controller???
by Line6Hugo on 2011-02-02 14:22:46.2750

marke697sc,

The PODxt Live is not intended to act as a MIDI controller, but it does send some MIDI messages whenever you toggle presets and effects.
For Example, when you switch between presets, it sends Program Change messages:

POD Channel 1A = MIDI Program Change 1

POD Channel 1b = MIDI Program Change 2

etc.

Please go over Appendix C of the following PODxt Live Manual for info on what MIDI messages are sent when you enable/disable effects on the device.

 

Source: http://de.line6.com/...w/thread/55422/

Another helpful thread: http://de.line6.com/...ew/thread/1879/


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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#9 Smashcraaft

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:35 AM

… do not you have a friend who can lend you an XTL to do a test?

What is a friend? A follower?!

 

At the moment the HD500 seems to be the better value but I am going to investigate in the routing possibilities of the Engl MIDI-Interface called Z-7.

Maybe this unite can re-write in logical patterns like (Midi / Ampchanel)

1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4,

5-1, 6-2, 7-3, 8-4,

 

or something freely adjustable like

1-2, 2-2, 3-1, 4-3, 5-4

 

I will get back to you after reading those lollipop manual  :ph34r: 


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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#10 Smashcraaft

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 11:55 AM

No re-writes. Now I have to find out if the ENGL MIDI-Interface receives the 4 channel programm-changes on 0-3 or 1-4
  • 0
"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#11 Smashcraaft

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:56 PM

M13 could be an alternative. It seems to offer 48 individual MIDI-Sends (one per scene).
I will take a look at the M5 and M9, too.

Interesting...
"the M5 sends only program change # from 1 to 24, so what i did was to make a setlist and name each song / patch on the M5 and assign the appropiate midi patch # to each rig on the kemper in browse mode."
https://www.kemper-a...oot-controller/

But how can I find out, if the 24 possible changes can be assigned individual or does patch 11 generates the fixed change #11, patch 12 leads to #12 etc.

There is no explanation in any of the manuals, except the m13

Another similar case http://line6.com/sup...8-m5-midi-help/
  • 0
"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#12 Smashcraaft

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:38 PM

Good new. I talked to my bandmate and he could describe the way the Amp channel switches are stored in the ENGL Z7 Midi interface.

He pushes the edit-button, does a click on the Midi-foot switch and adjusts the amp Chanel settings, so after storing this all relationships are sampled in the Midi-Interface.

To me it seems like the Z7 is "learning" the incoming Midi program changes.

So it should be possible, to simulate the part of clicking on the Midi-foot switch, by switching up or down into the POD Xt / X3 Preset, which should finally be used in this scenario. Re-pushing the footswitch of the Preset might work either.

Does that sound valid somehow?
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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#13 rd2rk

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:54 PM

Most MIDI devices that are controllable from generic controllers respond to specific MIDI messages - PC,CC, NOTE or SYSEX. The mfr should be able to provide a "MIDI Implementation" chart to tell you which messages do what. I did a quick search online and at their website and couldn't find one. Your best bet is to check with ENGL support. If it responds to PC,CC or NOTE, then any pedalboard that can be programmed to send those messages should work. SYSEX is a different story.


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#14 Smashcraaft

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:59 AM

Update: No needs for further investigations. My friend bought a old and cheap Boss GT-6 which should fit his simple needs for Noisegate, Tuner and a little bit of room and delay.

The GT-6 sends PC commands right as the formally used Behringer FCB1010 does, so everything should work fine.

Thank you very much!
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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#15 rd2rk

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:53 AM

I like ENGL amps. Used to have an E315 head that I wish I hadn't sold. So I might get another ENGL someday. I'm curious. How did your friend figure out which MIDI messages did what?


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#16 Smashcraaft

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:13 AM

I like ENGL amps. Used to have an E315 head that I wish I hadn't sold. So I might get another ENGL someday. I'm curious. How did your friend figure out which MIDI messages did what?

Honestly I don't like the typical high-gain tone of ENGL, but I do love the crunch.However… my friend was relying on the following informations I send to him.
We are both pretty sure the FCB1010 is sending PCs via the pedals.
 

Boss GT-6 - Outputting MIDI Program Change Messages

When a patch is selected on the GT-6, a Program Change message corresponding to the patch number is transmitted simultaneously. The external MIDI device then switches its settings according to the Program Change message it receives.
Behringer FCB1010
​It can send Program Changes, Control Changes, and Note messages. It can store up to 100 presets. It supports the full 128 Program Change messages. It can send up to five different Program Change messages, two Control Change messages, and Note messages at one time. In addition, both expression pedals can send Control Change data for each preset.

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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#17 Smashcraaft

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:44 AM

No complaints with the GT-6 being used as a MIDI-Controller to switch amp-channels on a ENGL with the Z-7 MIDI-Interface attached.
Furthermore we use the Noise Suppressor on the ENGL HighGain-Channel and some usual Effects like delay and Wah. Still getting used to functions but everything turns out to be fine.

Effects and modeling are better than expected as the device was released in 2001.

It is really fun to operate a device from "decades ago" ;)
  • 0
"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.





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