littlespaceman

I'm puzzled by the way the Catalyst behaves when you changes a preset. There are 2 things in particular here that just seem quite odd to me; 1) WHEN YOU CHANGE PRESET THE AMP CHANGES TO WHICHEVER CHANNEL YOU HAD SELECTED IN THE PREVIOUS PRESET, RATHER THAN DEFAULTING TO CHANNEL A IN THE NEW PRESET Let's say in Preset 1, I change from Channel A to B. I then want to choose another preset. I expect the new preset to default to Channel A, but it doesn't - instead it switches to whichever Channel I had selected in the previous preset at the time I changed. So if I was on Channel A, the new preset will be on Channel A, but if I was on Channel B then Channel B of the new preset is selected. This makes no sense to me, and causes great confusion; surely the point of a preset is that it will always be in exactly the same state when you select it, you shouldn't have to remember what Channel of the previous preset you were on just to make sure you don't get the wrong Channel on the new preset. 2) THE SAME IS TRUE OF BOOST Let's say on Preset 1 I turn the boost on. I then go to Preset 2, which is saved with NO boost. But because it was on when I left Preset 1, it remains on when Preset 2 loads up. Again this makes absolutely no sense; if I save a preset, I want it to be in exactly the same state I saved it in, every time I select it - it's not meant to be a random lottery or guessing game. No other modeller I've used does this, and I can't see any benefit for this so can someone please explain if I'm missing something here. LINE 6: CAN THIS BE RESOLVED BY A FIRMWARE UPDATE PLEASE?

Ok, well that's uncanny - I've just logged in to post questions to Line 6 about to issues with the Catalyst; one of them is this thread about the position of FX Loop, and the other, which I was going to start a separate thread about was going to be - well, exactly what you said; you turn a boost on in a preset, change to another preset that does NOT have the boost on, and the boost remains on from the previous preset. Yep, just like you said, 'WHAT??!' I'll start a thread on this, this surely can't be the intended design - as you say, no other modeller I've ever used does things this way, why when you change to a new preset would you want it to load in a different configuration to the way it was saved? It's totally pointless. Regarding this problem being what causes the problem with the position of the FX loop, unfortunately that's not the solution; when I have a looper playing through the FX Loop of the Catalyst, I am not experiencing the issue where the onboard delay etc affect the loop when I change presets; the loop is also affected when you manually turn on off delay/modulation etc within the same preset, which surely means the problem is that the amp FX Loop is placed BEFORE the onboard effects. CAN WE HAVE SOME INPUT HERE FROM LINE 6 PLEASE? IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A FUTURE FIRMWARE THAT ALLOWS THE USER TO CHANGE THE FX LOOP POSITION (AS FOR EXAMPLE IN THE KATANA AND NEXTONE AMPS) OR IS IT FIXED IN PLACE AND CAN'T BE CHANGED. This current configuration is problematic for me, and makes it impossible to use this all-in-one amp as an all-in-one amp, if you are using a looper pedal, which I imagine a lot of people will do.

I have both a PowerCab 112+ and a Cat 60w. I've recently had a chance to compare them directly, using a modeller (Headrush) as I wondered if I could get rid of the PC, because the Catalyst would do it all - be an easy to use every day amp that I can plug in to and play when I've got a spare 15 minutes, but also be a great way to give a modeller the 'amp in the room' feel. My first impressions are, sadly, that no, the Cat is not a replacement for the PC; it's easier to use (less cables etc to plug in for a quick jam, and as I've discovered if you have young kids, time is precious, a rig that takes even 60 seconds to plug in and play doesn't get used much!) but the PowerCab sounded noticeably better, IMHO; the Cat sounded slightly muddier in comparison. I'll try it some more using the Global EQ on the Headrush (which of course slightly defeats the point, because ideally you've done all that in each patch in your modeller, and don't want to have to do it again) but I'd say If you only had the Cat then you'll probably be really happy with it as a power amp. But if you compare the two, the PC sounds much better. Again, this is all IMHO of course. ps, I would say that if you have both, the Cat makes a nice/cheap second speaker for a (slightly coloured) stereo rig

I thought that all amps with onboard effects had their FX loops placed in the chain so that anything you place in the FX loop isn’t then affected by the onboard effects? That’s my experience with other modelling amps anyway. So in concept I don’t see that your Kia analogy is a fair one; however I do agree that the Cat should go back. Seems to defeat the object for Line 6, though, doesn’t it? To release an amp to take on head-to-head one of the best selling amps of all time (the Katana) but the end product is an amp that fundamentally doesn’t work with what is currently the one of the most popular things to place in the FX Loop (ie a looper) and therefore it’s an amp that won’t work for a lot of people. So I would argue it is a design flaw, given the concept of the amp (as indicated by the name ‘Cat/Kat’, price point etc) is to appeal to as many people as possible.

I’ve haven’t noticed these popping noises on the Cat yet but I’ve had similar problems with a popping noise like that with Blackstar tube amps as well. In the digital world though I’d expect that to be something that can fixed. I personally don’t buy an ‘all-in-one’ amp to then have to stick pedals in the front, although in appreciate that is one solution

It’s a manageable problem for sure. My bigger issue - if I understand it correctly - is about the implementation of the Fx Loop. I’ve posted separately about it in another thread, so I’m not going to go in to too much detail here, But from what I can see the FX loop is placed before the built-in effects such as delay, meaning that if you use a looper in the FX Loop, which is all I use it for, whatever effects you then turn on in the amp also affects the loop you’ve recorded (delay being an example of an effect that has a really negative result on a loop) Please take a look at my post and answer there if you have a view on this. It’s becoming a deal-breaker for me and the amp will go back unless there’s a work around - it seems to be a major design flaw to me…

Plus, another thing that frustrates me about using the amp model button to change patches is the white light that tells you what amp model you’re on is a) too dim, and b) bleeds through to the models either side so it’s hard to tell which amp you’ve selected sometimes.

Yup, that works too. But now do it while using both hands to play your guitar… Cost wasn’t a factor for me as I own the Airstep already - and I can use the Airstep with all of my other gear too, including my Yamaha THR 2 which it can control via Bluetooth MIDI, without needing the app to be open at the same time (which other BT foot controllers do need to control the THR)

See this thread; And the good news (if you own or want to buy an Xsonic Airstep Multi) is that they are currently working on a firmware that will allow the pedal to control all of the Catalyst MIDI functions by USB MIDI. And you won't need a laptop / host etc; the pedal will be the host. It is a standalone unit, that will resemble in form and function something like the Roland GA-FC footswitch. Why Line 6 had to make to so difficult to access simple functions like changing Bank on the Catalyst amps is totally beyond me, I'd love a comment from someone at Line 6 about this...

I'm still having problems with this, and really not liking it. So FWIW I've posted about this in another thread that discusses the FX Loop position

I've posted separately on another thread about this, so I'm glad this conversation is happening here; I have a major problem with the way the FX loop is implemented on the Catalyst, and it's deal breaker for me - the amp will go back, because the FX loop just isn't fit for purpose and this looks like a major ball dropped by Line 6... ...IF my understanding is right! So I'm happy to stand corrected on all of this :o) The problem I have is that I'm using the FX loop for a looper. However let's say I record a loop using a preset with NO reverb / delay. I then want to solo over that loop with a different preset that does use reverb and delay. But when I do, the reverb and delay is also added to the first loop I recorded, which makes the whole thing sound mushy and is basically unusable. So here goes - my understanding, helped by the explanation above, is; 1)The order of things in the amp = EFFECTS (if PRE*) -> PRE-AMP -> FX LOOP -> EFFECTS (if POST*) -> POWER AMP (* the EFFECTS can be PRE or POST) 2) If this is correct then it explains why I get the problem I described above; because when the EFFECTS are post, they are still before the FX LOOP, so any EFFECTS that are turned on in the preset I want to use to solo over the loop will also affect the loop itself. Is this correct? 3) One solution would be to place the EFFECTS in the PRE position. But as we know if delay is placed before a distorted pre-amp voice, then what you end up with is mushy and unusable. 4) So the best solution - as implemented on other brand digital amps etc is for the FX LOOP to be last in the chain, except for the POWER AMP. But this is not how the Catalyst is put together. And therefore it is impossible to use it effectively with a looper in the FX LOOP, without the problems I have described above. Is this all correct?? If so I'm sending the amp back, because the only reason I want the FX LOOP is to use a looper, without having to plug the looper in the front end before the PRE-AMP. I await your replies!

I'll look in to calling support / opening a ticket. In the meantime, some follow up information for you; I took my MacBook in to a Guitar Center (I don't actually live here in the US but come here a lot with work) and plugged it in to a Cat 60W they had on display. Cat Edit opened almost instantly on my MBP, so it's not the Mac that's the problem. And the Cat 100 at home works fine with the iOS app, which implies it's not the amp that's the problem. So it must be something going on with the amp...?

I'm not sure if you misread my message, but taking (at least) 5 minutes to launch a Mac application such as Cat Edit, WITH the amp connected, does not seem like normal behaviour to me. I had a Cat 60 for a while before switching to this brand new Cat 100, and Cat Edit would start in a few seconds with the 60w connected...

Interesting - I will. I also thought of some other possibly relevant info; when I launch Cat Edit on my MacBook, WITHOUT the amp plugged in to the Macbook, Cat Edit starts almost immediately (as it should) if I launch Cat Edit with the amp already connected via USB, Cat Edit takes about 5 minutes to launch, with the onscreen message ‘Creating Engine’ displayed during that time…

Sorry, Mac OS X (10.15.7) I've tried different USB port, different cables (3) and I've reinstalled both Cat Edit 1.01 and even tried 1.00 Still nothing. I know the USB in on the amp works because I've used it with my iPhone and the iOS app

Brand new amp (Cat 100), latest version of firmware (1.02), latest version of Updater, and latest version of Catalyst Edit. Edit does not see the amp, and cannot be used to edit any of the amp settings. Any ideas?

The answer - for me at least - is that I live in a tiny house, and I will never really get to gig with the amp (young kids = no time!) So I don't want something that is even only a few inches / pounds bigger and heavier, not to mention $100 / £90 more expensive, for the sake of a 5 pin MIDI socket. Call it a battle of wills if you like, but it's become my personal mission to get the 6oW to work with USB MIDI, without the need for am external host. To be frank, I think it is a major ball-drop by Line 6 to make it so difficult to get the 60W to work the way we want - and if it's all about marketing and not wanting to under-sell the 100W by giving the 60W proper MIDI, then look at it this way, Line 6 - this does not make me like you any more! You could easily have used a TRS MIDI socket on the 60W if space was an issue. In the meantime I did buy an Airstep, specifically to get USB MIDI in to the 60W. And it doesn't work - BUT, and it's a big but, Airsonic have been fantastic, and are working on a firmware update for the Airstep that will make it work directly with the 60W via USB. Their customer service makes the purchase worthwhile, it's a fantastic pedal, and I get to use it with loads of other hardware I own, such as the Yamaha THR 2 (control of all patches and FX, via Bluetooth directly from the Airstep, without the need for the THR app to be open!)

Good spot, but yes, I’ve used that switch. All that switch does is turn the amp into a sort of ‘Powercab Lite’ by allowing you to plug a modeller (Helix etc) in to the FX loop return socket. It then just amplifies the sound from your modeller, so you don’t get any of the amp voices or fx, everything comes from the modeller. If you have the switch on the back of the amp to the ‘Power Amp’ setting but plug something like a looper in to the FX loop, all it does is amplify the signal coming through the looper, which if nothing else is plugged in to the looper will just be a clean guitar signal. To use the FX loop properly you have to have the rear switch set to ‘FX Loop’. But it’s with the switch set this way that I’ve found that the amp channels / voicing and FX such as reverb or delay change the loop you’ve recorded, hence my original question about where the FX loop sits in the overall chain

Any chance of an official Line 6 reply to this?

I agree it would be strange for the FX loop to be before the preamp. And yes if the FX blocks are after the loop I get that this would affect the playback of the recorded loop, so again you’d think that Line 6 would have put the FX Loop at the very end. When you say you don’t have any suggestions other than the obvious, what are the obvious ones? Because changing the amp channels/presets definitely changes my loop so something isn’t quite right; and it’s not like you can deep edit the position of the FX loop like you can with Helix etc. So it’s not as it there’s much possibility of user error as there are so few user definables…

See my thread about USB MIDI on the Cat 60W. I’ve done a LOT of Googling to try to find a 5-pin to USB B MIDI cable and it appears no such think exists. And I don’t think you can get BT MIDI dongles in anything other than 5-pin. If I’m wrong please let me know where I can get one from!

What do you need to know?

Yes, I love the sounds it comes out with. But I don’t like the lack of 5-pin MIDI on the 60W. And they’re a lot bigger than the equivalent Kats. Maybe the bigger cabinet helps the sound? But I’d prefer them to be nearer in size to the Katana.

I’m a bit confused about the position of the FX loop in the Catalyst amps. I thought it was normal for FX loops to be after the pre amp (or amp voicing) or at least switchable, so you can choose whether it’s pre or post. However when I use a looper pedal in my Cat 60W, when I record a loop, it changes as I change the amp channel / patch and also when I turn on effect or reverb, even if ‘post’ is selected on the effect/reverb. I find this surprising, and it makes using a looper in the FX loop (which is surely one of the most basic and common uses for an FX loop these days?) pointless; if you lay down a clean rhythm loop, and then choose a driven sound to solo over your rhythm loop, the loop takes on the lead sound and turns to mush. Am I missing something here?

I'm waiting for an Xsonic Airstep pedal to be delivered, when it does I will be trying it with the Cat 60W as a MIDI footswitch. From what I can tell it is the best way to get the feel of an amp footswitch (it is metal, it is foot operated, it looks more or less like a guitar amp footswitch and it is battery powered so no messy mains cable, which most MIDI foot switches have) and is one of very few options to get MIDI to the amp via the USB B socket (why there isn't a 5 PIN on the 60W is beyond me; if lack of space was considered an issue, Line 6 could have at least opted to a TRS MIDI input. But USB B is not at all user-friendly) The only thing is I haven't been able to verify that it will work for sure with the Cat USB; Airsonic think it will but don't have access to a Cat to try it, so looks like I'm the guinea pig. Ill let you know how I get on...