StruckingFuggle

Thanks for the reply. I've had a bit of a breakthrough, as I've posted in another thread. I downloaded the Core Tone IR pack from Ownhammer, and between that and what you've mentioned about FRFR harshness in a solo context I'm getting more optimistic. Tone is subjective, of course, but the Ownhammer Mesa and Marshall IRs sound like real cabinets to me. For years I played through a tall Mesa Recto sealed back 4x12 V30's. Those speakers are perfectly broken in, and I have so many gigs on them that I know exactly what that cabinet sounds like in big rooms, small rooms, different mics, positions, etc. It's still upstairs in the road case because I don't have the guts to sell it yet. :) The first time I dialed in the Ownhammer Recto cab I seriously though "omg, finally, there it is". It's been about 24 hours, and I've replaced all my other IRs with the OH (Recto, AC30, Marshall, and double verb). They are fantastic to my ears. The low end isn't boomy, the high end isn't harsh. I've pushed the high cut up to 7K, and while it does sound a bit bright, it's not the ice-picky fuzzy kind of bright. I can change the tone from "in your face" to "sittin back" using my volume knob,or small tweaks to amp EQ, drive, and verb. I totally agree with the ear fatigue issue. I usually only program in 20 minute sessions. With kids who gets more than 20 minutes uninterrupted anyway? You're right, that I was getting super frustrated. I'd tweaked pretty much every knob and couldn't get there. I know that once I lose confidence gear I start finding reasons to justify why I don't like it, instead of finding ways to fix it. Full-band practice tomorrow. I've brightened up my patches a bit and am really looking forward to seeing how they sound in the mix now. It's amazing to me how much impact the IR has on the output. I thought the 3 Sigmas sounded better than the stock cabs, but the Ownhammers are on another level. I spent a lot of time A/B'ing between the four or five Mesa V30 IRs I have from different vendors, and every time I dial back to the OH the amp sounds real. Now I feel like I can get started on tweaking the amps and effects. I have my pedal platform. Somewhere reasonable to start from. Sure wish I had tried them earlier. I'd probably be much further along.

BTW, don't use the noise gate on the input block. Especially for high gain. If you must have a gate, put a hard gate at the end of your chain. The gate on the input will absolutely kill your tone.

After having a day to go through the Marshall and Mesa IRs that are part of the core tone library, I just want to say WOW. The IR mixes are friggin fantastic. Seriously, I think this is exactly the knob I've been looking to tweak, and just couldn't find. With the other IR packs I've purchased or downloaded, I found a few that were usable. With the Ownhammer mixes, it's like one after the other after the other is kick butt. I have to search through through them to find one I don't like, as opposed to going "nope, nope, nope, nope, welll.....nope, nope, nope" Heavy tone: Scream 808, Soldano Lead, Recto V70 OH1-5, and a little vintage delay for depth. Done. It was so easy. No parametric EQing before and after the amp. No putzing around with every single tiny parameter of each amp/cab. Just dial it up, set the level, boom. So glad I tried these. Tone is subjective, and the next guy might listen to the Ownhammers and hate them, but for me these are the missing link between sounding like a Pod and sounding like an amp.

Sounds very familiar. I've been struggling with getting the big bold rectifier sound. Almost ready to give up on Helix. A forum member suggested I try the Ownhammer California duo IRs. Huge difference. I was stepping through the pack and hit OH1 and OH2, and went "holy $h!t". Helix finally sounds like an amp, and not an 🎤 'd up Pod. Your mileage may vary, but for me these specific IRs are the closest thing I've found to my recto cab since....well, my recto cab. Big but not boomy, thick, saturated, presence without harshness. Low cut at 70, high cut at 7k. If you've ever loaded up the stock vintage 30 cab and then cycled through the mic options, then you probably know what I mean about the "tin can Kermit the frog" sound. For me, when I loaded up the OH1 it seemed like I had unplugged whatever EQ was killing my tone. Full disclaimer, I have not played live with the band using these, not until Monday. But given the fact that I can lower the low cut, raise the high cut, and have far less boomy/tin can thing, I'm hopeful it'll solve my stage volume and mix issues as well.

Man, good call. Today I downloaded the Ownhammer Core tone bundle and found the REcto V70A OH1 and OH2. Wow. Night and day difference from the stock V30 cab. You're not kidding. It's like the amp sound finally came to life. The POD Xt sound is gone!

Since I'm using third party IRs would it even be worth posting? I'll shoot a video, although I'm not sure the iPhone mic will pick up the room sound.

I've tried all of the higher gain models. The soldano lead and Archetype lead are probably the two I like the most. All the marshall clones seem a bit spongy and fuzzy, so tend to avoid them for lead tones (mostly the same experience I have with marshall heads, so it's consistent). I typically back off the drive, presence, and highs, bump the mids a bit, and drop the low a bit. Then I'll use a tube screamer with gain and tone around 1 or 2 to add a bit of mid shift and grit. I've tried all the stock cabinets, and of those the Mesa V430 is probably the closest to the sound I'm used to. Usually I'll use one of the ribbon mics (4028?) at 2". However, I've not found a stock cab/mic combination that doesn't sound "Kermit the froggy" (back of the throat), super harsh (typical SM57 sound), or boomy (ribbon at distance). I have Redwirez big box Mesa V30s, Orange V30s, and twin IRs, as well as the Mesa V30 and Fender twin pack from 3 Sigma. The best sound I've had yet is to split the signal after the amp and run into one Mesa V30 and one Fender twin. Low cut around 100, high cut around 3.5 - 4K. The 3 Sigma IRs sound better to me than the Redwirez. However, the Redwirez package is far more extensive. Last night I Ioaded up each of the Redwirez IRs (30 at a time), and stepped through every combination of mic/distance. While some are certainly better than others, on the whole, the Redwirez all sound "distant", regardless of mic placement, when compared to the 3 Sigma. That might be ok, but since I'm already struggling to get this sound into the live mix of my band, I don't need more distance (kind of like adding too much verb). Today I'm going to put the high-cuts back up around 6-7K, and then put a parametric at the end of the chain. See if I can sweep out the harsh. It's what I would do if I were running FOH, makes sense that I'll have to do it with the FRFR. There has to be some middle ground.

One thing I can't seem to shake with Helix is the "Kermit the Frog", back-of-the-throat'ish tone. I've gone through every Redwirez Big Box and 3 Sigma IR that I have, every mic combination using the Mesa V30 cab. I can make it worse, or less worse, but I can never seem to get it to go away. It gets boomy with the ribbons, and harsher with the dynamics, and gets more "throaty" as you move the mic away. Four different guitars, very different pickups. Just trying to get a good quality rock tone, and a higher-gain heavy-ish sound. Back to basics. Gain pedal + Amp + impulse (or stock cab), 1/4 out to Line 6 L2t channel strip (floor mode, flat EQ). No other effects, no splits, Once again, I feel like there is one more knob missing that I just can't tweak. So frustrated. Is it the L2ts? Anybody else hear this? How do you get rid of Kermit?

Thanks, I've watched video, and I'm aware of the issue. I've played professionally in several bands where I've used IEMs with a cab offstage, or load-boxed and direct. Hearing a mic'd-up tone is not what I'm struggling with with. Perhaps because I've used IEMs in the past, on a private mix, where my guitar signal is EQ'd from the monitor mixer, and fairly hot in my mix, I just can't get used to mixing an FRFR modeling sound on stage. Perhaps it's my in-ear mix that I'm really missing. Maybe? I'm certain that years of live music has left me with mid range frequency loss. Maybe I'm just used to compensating for it with my IEM mix. The tones I'm getting from Helix are acceptable, and I'm sure any average non-guitarist would say they sound fine. Helix is clearly a cut above the previous line 6 modelers (of which I have owned several). If there is a deficiency, it's most likely in my ability to tweak the 200 knobs. There is frustration that even with the advanced capabilities of Helix I can't replicate the time and feel of what I had. Which feels like a step backwards. There are some good suggestions here, and always learn something new. When you guys are using IRs, do you use preamp + amp + cab + IR? Right now I'm just using studio comp, amp, split into two IRs, mono to a single L2t in floor mode. Some verb and delay for some snaps. I'll try to elevate the monitor, get it further away, and raise my high cuts to 5-6k. In my studio that would result in (what my ears hear) as harsh. Next live practice is Monday. Maybe the tones will cut through a little better without being so loud. That was my goal of going frfr in the first place, controlling stage volume.

I'm still fairly new to Helix, and I have some tones that I like, but I'm struggling to get them into the mix. I'm using an L2t, and when I play with the band it seems like I just disappear. I have to be way too loud to get up over the drums/keys/acoustic. My two main patches use a combination of 3 sigma IRs, one Fender and one Mesa. I build my tones at pretty high volumes. In order to tame the harsh, ice-picky sound I've been high-cutting at around 4K. Could that be why when I take these tones to live practice they just seem like I can never get them loud enough? They sound great in my studio, until I put them in the band. The gain patches either feel like way too much gain, or not nearly enough. I can't find that crisp tone that makes me feel like I'm standing in front of my amp (when in fact I'm right on top of the L2t). I've tried boosting mids, but that just seems to muddy things up in my higher gain patches, and makes things fuzzier. I really want to like Helix, but I'm starting to feel a bit like the kid with the kidney bean POD again. Sounds great in headphones, don't bring that *&^% to practice. I've used a bunch of different tube rigs, and even some solid state amps in the early days. Never before had this much trouble just getting three decent sounds (clean/crunch/lead) to sit with the band. Am I still missing something obvious? Same guitars I've been playing for 15 years. PRS, Fender Strat, Les Paul, Ibanez UV777. Starting to wonder if it's just me, and I simply can't get used to modeling/frfr. It shouldn't be this hard. I've downloaded Glen's patches. I've built my own from scratch, from watching youtube. I've tried the presets. So far, nothing I have sits in the mix with a live band without sounding super harsh, or being super loud (which is then boomy). Sounds great in the studio, sounds like crap with four other guys banging away. Anybody here actually use Helix in a live band? What are your best tips? I'm running out of things to tweak.

I read a tip a while back on how to get the tones you want for specific songs (or just sections of songs). Pick an amp/cabinet to start with, something in the ballpark for the tone you want. Put a looper at the front of the chain. Star the looper, play the part. Put the guitar down and tweak away. I've been working on a Comfortably Numb patch, since the day I got Helix really, and I've been struggling to get a sound I liked. It was either too much gain, or not enough gain, or too much noise, or not enough delay, etc... The initial learning curve for Helix is steep. Amps/cabs/mics/IRs/eq. When I first got Helix I would throw an amp/cab in the path and go 'nope, I hate that', and then try something else, never quite finding exactly what I wanted. What I know now, is to not give up too early on a model. Using the looper technique I've been able to find some pretty darn good tones. I'm learning to REALLY listen to what's going on, and then tweak just a thing or two, and really listen again. Get an overdrive sound I'm happy with before adding the delay. Get those things really close before I add the chorus. It's probably driving my wife batty, listening to the same Comfortably Numb solo for an hour. :) But I'm getting something I'm really very happy with now. It's great to be able to tweak the tone while listening instead of while I'm playing. My latest favorite is the Soldano Lead with some 3 Sigma IRs. Can't wait to try this patch in a live practice. Still learning something new every time I sit down and start tweaking. using the looper it's super easy to try out different ODs with different gain settings and A/B between them. Works so nicely. :)

Pretty positive experience with Helix/L2t in my first live practice. I used a single preset with four snapshots (clean, crunch, dirty, lead). Basic patch using Archon (wah, delay, verb). I've dialed out way too much bass (due to some problems with my studio being very low frequency resonant, and some kind of fan defect in my L2t that causes awful buzzing). Was pretty happy with my lead tone. The dialed-back bass with extra mid and level boost put it just about right. It cut right through. We played at a much lower volume than I was expecting, which I'm sure contributed. I need less gain in my crunch and dirty patches. Archon has so much drive. It sounds fantastic all heavy and banging, but the material I played tonight definitely needed a lot cleaner tone. I found myself dialing back the volume knob on my guitar, which (given the EQ settings I was using) made it thin out more than I wanted. The L2t came in very handy, since the singer brought a 10 watt bass amp to sing through. :huh: I let him plug into a channel on my L2t, and was quite impressed with the clarity and power. As far as monitors go, it's fantastic for this application. A pair of them would be kick butt. I'll have to be on the look out for some used ones. I'm definitely more confident that Helix is going to work for me. I had hundreds of gigs on my last rig, which I loved, but these days who's going to lug around 100 watt head, 4x12, and a rack of processing? Not me. I can tell you that. Each time I play it I learn something, and get closer to what I want. The issues I'm having with Helix are just inexperience, and will get sorted out with some time in the saddle. It took me quite a while to dial in my Triaxis and JMP1. Have a few more nobs to tweak with Helix, but I'm getting closer. Will probably never give up my Mobius, though. :) Dang I love the phaser in that thing.

One thing I've learned in my 30 years of playing guitar, is that you could hand me any famous guitar player's rig, and I'm still going to sound like me playing through Mr. Famous's rig. :( I've purchased several of Glen's packs. I like them, and I think they sound good. I can't make them sound like Glen does on the video. I don't have his guitars, and I don't play with his hands (or that weird thumb-picking thing he's got going on). He's pretty good. His demos are well arranged and EQd, and you're often hearing multiple tracks. For me, they're worth the minimal investment. 10 patches with snapshots for $20? I spend more on coffee. And he's answered every question and supported me super quickly when the downloads have had technical issues. Stand up guy.

It's no different than any other amp. If it's in contact with the floor, and makes noise, your neighbors are gonna hear it. And then you're gonna hear about it. :) It does get really darn loud, and can be rather boomy in PA Reference mode. I have to low-cut all my patches at 100hz, and even then the natural floor coupling (that affects pretty much all floor monitors) can over-emphasize bass freqs. So best case, get it up on a pole, low cut, and just don't turn up much. Since we're talking bedroom volumes, it may be more economical to get a set of powered desktop monitors, or a great set of headphones.

MF is sending me an advance replacement, and I will ship mine back on Friday. Should get the replacement by Monday. Thanks for the input. I'll take a picture of the serial number before I send it. Look for an "open box" L2t to show up on MF early next week. Lol.

Wait, they actually do that? Lol. They've got a kick-back deal with UPS, right? The UPS store just holds it in the back of the store for several days and then just re-delivers the same unit. I keed, I keed.

It's definitely frequency/volume dependent. I posted earlier about having a resonant room that excites when I play an A note, and I'm getting other things in the room vibrating when that happens. So I moved this speaker to a completely different environment, and I'm still hearing this annoying buzz (that sounds like something on the desk is vibrating). I've heard it come from the back, which sounds like the dreaded fan noise issue, and I hear it come from the top/side closest to where I took the video Nobody carries these locally, so I think my options are 1) send it back to Musicians Friends since I'm within the return window and wait for a replacement to be shipped, or 2) take it to the Line 6 service dealer and convince them that this buzz isn't normal and hope that they fix it.

Ok, terrible camera work, I get it. But does this sound normal for L2T? I'm using a PRS on the neck pickup, Cali IV Rythm 2, low cut at 100hz, bedroom volumes , and this is what I hear on every palm mute of the lower frets. This L2t is only a few weeks old, and hasn't been driven hard. It happens in every DSP mode, on all my patches. It's very prominent on clean sounds, especially when I play an F bar chord. I'm waiting for the local Line 6 service tech to call me back. Trying to decide if it needs repair, or if I should just send it back to Musicians Friend.

A few weeks ago I bought an L2t for use with my Helix. Since the day I got it I've noticed a rattle and hum at certain frequencies. After reading through the forums, I think it may be the fan noise issue. But from three years ago? They're still selling uncorrected speakers? This one is going back to the retailer. I'm within the 45 day return period.

I still miss the sound of this puppy, though. But I don't miss pushing it in and out of the trailer. So now it sits in its case, awaiting a return to glory.

One thing I've recently discovered is that for any pedals in the effects loops that add noise (overdrive, compressor, etc) I have to set the effect loop parameter "Trails" to off. Otherwise, even if the effect send block is bypassed the mixer still gets the signal from the pedal. You want the tails for verbs and delays to trail off naturally, but you don't want the nose and hiss from OD. Trails Off: Any delay repeats or reverb decays are instantly muted when the block is bypassed. Trails On: Any delay repeats or reverb decays continue to decay naturally when the block is bypassed or a different snapshot is selected.

Just get the drop. However, be prepared to not like it. It absolutely will alter your tone. It's a trade-off. It will suck sparkle and presence right out of your signal. And the further down you go, the worse it gets. So for 1/2 step or full step down it's bearable, but you'll need to compensate in your patches. For practice, or playing along to learn songs, it works. Although it's a bizarre sound at low volumes, because you hear the natural pitch of the string + the signal. I have to use headphones, and even then I can literally feel the guitar vibrate in my hands at a different pitch than I'm hearing, so it's just weird. So if it's just one or two songs live, then maybe it's worth not having the spare guitar. If I was doing a couple sets in drop C, or a bunch of 1/2 step down Van Halen or SRV, etc, I'm bringing the other guitars. If you can, get one from somewhere that will let you return it if you don't like it.

After a few weeks with Helix, I've decided that I till want some pedals. More choice is a good. The OD choices in Helix are great, but sometimes I just want my Maxon 808 or MXR OD. So I've added a pedal tier to my board. It makes rapid pedal changes super easy. I can try out new pedals, or swap out whatever my favorite OD is at the moment. Plus it gives some protection to the ins/outs. I've got the top tier pedals wired into effects sends 1-3, and my Möbius in 4. Guitar in goes through the Polytune and Drop. I can power 5 pedals on the top, and wire some in series if I want to have a few overdrives but only turn one on at a time (or gain stack). It's not super compact or super light, but it's a heck of a lot smaller and lighter than my big old 2x12, ground control, and rack full of pedals and fx. I'm finding my sound, and it's getting good. Glad I stuck with Helix through the "what have I done?" Stage. :) http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq235/kurt_shetler/C7141BD7-8041-4E83-B1E0-B336C31D2760_zpsr6z2gucm.jpg http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq235/kurt_shetler/E26F5896-67B1-4DA3-8BD8-EF1DC2DEDACA_zpsmctsottl.jpg

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Reorganize-swap-Looper-controls-with-capacitive-touch/891548-23508?submitted=1

One thing I did recently was plug my guitar into the "Aux In" jack, instead of the "Guitar In'. It sounded exactly like what you're describing. Like it was running on flat tires. I knew it sounded better the last time I played, Must be my patches, right? Nope. Wrong jack. Doh. I think I might put some tape of that jack, since I don't use it.