amsdenj Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm setting up the POD HD500X as an audio and MIDI controller interface to MainStage to use with S-Gear and a Fishman TriplePlay MIDI controller. I have a bunch of HD500X foot switches mapped to MainStage controls and all is working great. These foot switches are not connected to any HD500X effect block in order to keep the MainStage and HD500X effect controls independent. However, I would like to have the HD500X foot switch lights reflect the state of the control in MainStage. MainStage has the ability to configure MIDI thru back to the sending device. I used this with an Apogee GiO to have MainStage control the GiO foot switch lights. I thought something similar could be done with the HD500X. But it doesn't seem to work. Should sending a MIDI CC to a foot switch (with the right channel, CC command and value of course) be able to control the FS light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 You should be able to do this. Assign a dummy effect to the FX block you want associated with MainStage, and also assign that FX block to the footswitch you want. The dummy effect could be something like a volume pedal set at 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tboneous Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I'm setting up the POD HD500X as an audio and MIDI controller interface to MainStage to use with S-Gear and a Fishman TriplePlay MIDI controller. I have a bunch of HD500X foot switches mapped to MainStage controls and all is working great. These foot switches are not connected to any HD500X effect block in order to keep the MainStage and HD500X effect controls independent. However, I would like to have the HD500X foot switch lights reflect the state of the control in MainStage. MainStage has the ability to configure MIDI thru back to the sending device. I used this with an Apogee GiO to have MainStage control the GiO foot switch lights. I thought something similar could be done with the HD500X. But it doesn't seem to work. Should sending a MIDI CC to a foot switch (with the right channel, CC command and value of course) be able to control the FS light? I am curious about MainStage in a live setting. Can a band play along with prerecorded music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 After looking a little more closely at the equipment you're using, you're going to need something with a physical midi connector on it, like this: http://m-audio.com/products/view/uno . You can also find much cheaper ones that would probably work. It's the only way the pod can receive midi messages from your computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have the MIDI connector. And the footswitches do work. My issue is that I have no control of the footswitch lights from MainStage. What I think is happening is that the footswitch lights display the state of the effect block they are mapped to, and are not designed to be controlled remotely from MIDI. If you send a MIDI CC command to the HD500 that changes the state of an effect block, that will be indirectly reflected in the footswitch light. But if the footswitch is not mapped to an effect block, and is only being used for MIDI send, MIDI receive on the same CC has no effect on the footswitch light. Not sure if this works as designed, but this could be a missing feature in the HD500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Regarding MainStage, yes, MainStage has looper and backing track plugins you can put on a track. You can create a concert, sets and songs. Each song can have a different backing track. These can all be stored as a single consolidated .concert file for easy management. Hard to beat MainStage for the money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Maybe I'm trying to over-think this or I'm not familiar with the capabilities of mainstage. From what I can gather, it's a sort of specialized DAW? Another thing I'm unsure about is what happens with the pod's lights when using the it as a midi controller. Never done that before. I'm assuming nothing happens from what you say? So you're using the pod as a midi controller to control s-gear and the fishman triple play through the host of mainstage. Is this the exclusive use for the pod? There is absolutely no patch loaded on the pod, except for what you have configured for midi output? If that's the case, add to the patch you made with the configured midi outputs the following: eight volume pedals, all set to 100%, and assign each to a different footswitch. Here's where it gets kind of iffy for me, because I don't know the capabilities of mainstage. When you hit one of the footswitches on the pod to change something in either s-gear or the fishman, mainstage, being the host, must recognize this event somehow. Use that event to trigger another midi event that gets sent to the pod via the usb to midi device. This new event is the midi cc command corresponding to one of the eight footswitches, toggling the appropriate volume pedal effect, thus toggling the light. Just thought of this: Would you even need to send a midi message back to the pod? Fill the FX Blocks in your patch with the volume pedals, and assign each one to the footswitch with the corresponding one assigned to the midi output. Now when you hit one of the footswitches, it will simultaneously send the midi message you want and toggle one of the volume pedals (and the light). If this would work the same everytime, the state of the volume pedals would need to be toggled in a predetermined state before you start. Edited February 19, 2015 by duncann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 MainStage is a program that can be used to develop a live gigging rig. With MainStage you can select from a palette of screen controls (buttons, dials, drawbars, channel strips, etc.) and create a user interface for your setup. You can then map MIDI messages from hardware devices to these controls so that they can be change remotely. Each control can then be mapped to one or more parameters in a channel. The channels in MainStage look just like the channel strips for tracks in Logic Pro X and share the same software instruments, plugins and parameters. You can set the input of a channel strip, add audio or MIDI plugins, have bus sends, a fader, and mute/solo buttons. MainStage concerts consists of sets (folders) and each set contains a set of patches. The channel strips added at the concert level appear in all sets and patches. The channel strips in the set add specific instruments of the set, and /or override channel strips at the concert level. Patches in the set are for specific songs, and add channel strips or override channel strips in the set or concert for the particular song. MainStage also supports tracks that have loopers or backing tracks and you can map MIDI controls to the parameters for these plugins as well. I'm using the POD HD500X in a hybrid mode. I use a number of "front of the amp" effects from the POD (tube compressor, phaser, distortion, etc.) and these are configure for some of the foot switches. Other foot switches are used control things in MainStage (patch up/down, S-Gear Mod thing, Channel and Boost, MainStage looper, backing track playback, etc.). Regarding the lights, MainStage has the ability to send a MIDI command back thru to some other device, including the device that sent the message. I used this to control the lights on an Apogee GiO. It works great. I tried the same approach with the HD500X and it doesn't control the lights. Rather with I think happens is you can configure MIDI sends to control the HD500X effect block states, and these will in turn control the lights on the foot switches that are mapped to the effect blocks. It appears that just sending the MIDI message doesn't don anything if the foot switch is not mapped to an internal HD500X effect block. Since I'm using all the effect blocks for HD500X internal effects, there aren't any dummy effect blocks left to use simply to control the lights. Hopefully Line 6 will see this as a bug and allow MIDI sends to a foot switch that is not mapped to any effect block to control the light state. This would work the same as the Apogee GiO. I'm not finding this a big issue in practice. I can easily hear when the S-Gear Mod Thing is turned on, and the channel and boost switches make a big difference in the amp gain and voicing. So its pretty easy to hear the state of the foot switches, or see them in the MainStage display, or on an iPad using Logic Remote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Hopefully Line 6 will see this as a bug and allow MIDI sends to a foot switch that is not mapped to any effect block to control the light state. This would work the same as the Apogee GiO. Maybe post this on ideascale. Sounds like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tboneous Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Regarding MainStage, yes, MainStage has looper and backing track plugins you can put on a track. You can create a concert, sets and songs. Each song can have a different backing track. These can all be stored as a single consolidated .concert file for easy management. Hard to beat MainStage for the money. I record everything in Logic Pro 9. I have been flirting with the idea of adding mainstage. I don't want to hijack a thread about MIDI cc info but I have so many questions. If I am using MainStage for let's say a synth part, how is everyone playing on stage able to hear that synth part? Sure, put it through the monitors, but with so much stuff coming through the monitors, how does the band hear the Synth part well enough to make sure that they are in time with what MainStage is playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 ...If I am using MainStage for let's say a synth part, how is everyone playing on stage able to hear that synth part? ... this is a good q. a simple solution is: - send the syth WITHOUT A CLICK TRACK 2 the console (this is audible by the main pa speakers) - send the synth WITH A CLICK TRACK on the drummer's headphones, so he can hear the synth plus the click track - everyone on stage just hears the drummer plus the synth part form the pa monitors. we have tried this approach successfully on playing baba o'riley live an', believe me, it works. u only need a stereo track were both channels play the synth (mono), but only one channel plays also the click track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Not sure I understand your question. If MainStage is playing a backing track (pre-recorded material), or you recorded a loop that is playing back, then you and the rest of the band do need to hear the track to keep on time. The suggestion from jandrio sounds very good. However, if you're just using MainStage to host software instruments that you play in real time, then is is no different than playing any other instrument live with others. You keep in sync by listening to and responding to changes in tempo that naturally flow through the music. MainStage can provide a tempo and click for the song if you want, but its not necessary if you're just playing live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tboneous Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Not sure I understand your question. If MainStage is playing a backing track (pre-recorded material), or you recorded a loop that is playing back, then you and the rest of the band do need to hear the track to keep on time. The suggestion from jandrio sounds very good. However, if you're just using MainStage to host software instruments that you play in real time, then is is no different than playing any other instrument live with others. You keep in sync by listening to and responding to changes in tempo that naturally flow through the music. MainStage can provide a tempo and click for the song if you want, but its not necessary if you're just playing live. Yep, I was referring to playing along with pre recorded material. The click track seems to be the way to go. And Jandrio, you're suggesting that only the drummer need hear the click through headphones? Is the entire mix in the headphones or just the synth and click? The rest of the band need not apply? Not even the bass player? I also assume that the synth part will be fed to the monitors for the rest of the band to hear without click? What special gear do you need to make mainstage happen live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 ...And Jandrio, you're suggesting that only the drummer need hear the click through headphones? Is the entire mix in the headphones or just the synth and click? The rest of the band need not apply? Not even the bass player? i suppose this depends on the venue: if stage monitors r available 4 the drummer, then he needs only the synth+click on his headphones, otherwise with IEMs, i suppose he needs the click track+synth PLUS the rest of the band. ... I also assume that the synth part will be fed to the monitors for the rest of the band to hear without click? correct: synth part goes 2 the monitors 4 the rest of the band 2 hear without click. check out this ...extraterrestrial super vid ... ... What special gear do you need to make mainstage happen live?... i dunno abt mainstage, we r using a simple pc connected 2 the pa AND the video projector 4 above-the-stage vid show. the playlist progression is performed manually by our backstage pc operator (band staff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tboneous Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 check out this ...extraterrestrial super vid ... I've always hated The Who? I can't stand John Entwhistle's bass playing! All those friggin double stops and whatever you call that right hand finger banging of the strings. He always seemed like a frustrated guitarist who the band wouldn't let play guitar. Terrible! BUT....I have to admit....That is a cool clip! I love it! Now if you want to hear what a REAL rock bass player should sound like, check THIS out.....(the mind blowing part starts at around 3:00min) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 yeah, john paul jones in one of a kind ! but also bonham's kick drum was ...superhuman on Good Times Bad Times :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tboneous Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 ZOSO=Superhuman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 +1000 !!!!!!btw, i posted the baba o riley vid 2 demonstrate usage of pre recorded material (synth +click) on drummer's headphones.i believe The Who were the 1st band who introduced this technique... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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