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spawn2031

Simultaneous double tracking?

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I am beginning to set up my pod for home recording this weekend and have been reading a lot on people double tracking guitars to get a thick metal feel which is exactly what I want for my recordings.  Is there a way to set up the 500x for simultaneous double tracking or am I forever cursed to play the rhythm parts twice all the time?  No big deal if I have to... hell it's good practice but it would be nice ya know.  Quick run down, I have a 500x a presonus audio box (not currently being used) and Reaper as my DAW.

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Is there a way to set up the 500x for simultaneous double tracking?

 

Yes, should be pretty straight forward. Make a two amp model patch, make both amp models approximately the same, and pan them hard left and right in the mixer block. Put the pre amp model FX you intend to use on both before the amp models. Make sure if you use any FX after the amp models to put them before the mixer block.

 

The mixer block needs to be the last thing (before the looper), thus preserving the left / right panning.

 

You could try some basic tricks like, use a delay set to 100% mix on one of the amp models, after the model before the mixer, and set the time to the shortest possible amount. You can do a similar trick using a pitch shifter, by adjusting the pitch up or down a few cents.

 

Anything to take the same basic sound and make it slightly different.

Record the two outputs from the HD500 as dual mono, rather than as a stereo file.

 

Others will likely have some other good ideas for what you can do to fatten up the sound. But that's the basic concept.

I run dual amp models into dual amps, same basic concept.

 

One note, you can place stereo effects after the mixer block If you place mono effects after the mixer block, it sums the stereo signal to mono, which defeats the purpose of panning hard left and right.

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Ok I understand all of that.  Makes perfect sense.  All except for the part about recording the outputs as dual mono instead of stereo.  Once again I understand why but is that easily done in Reaper?  Is it just a check box in the device properties box?  Like I said sorry, newb here when it comes to this kind of a setup 

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Ok I understand all of that.  Makes perfect sense.  All except for the part about recording the outputs as dual mono instead of stereo.  Once again I understand why but is that easily done in Reaper?  Is it just a check box in the device properties box?  Like I said sorry, newb here when it comes to this kind of a setup 

 

Yes, it should be - dual mono just makes it easier to mess with in your software. When the HD500 is the ASIO soundcard, in Reaper when you arm the tracks, you should be able to choose either a stereo pair, or just mono left and/or mono right.

 

The reason I say to do it that way, is maybe when you mix it, you want to pan them center, but possibly increase or decrease one signal volume, or maybe you want to only pan them partially, say 40% left / 40% right. Not sure what that does with phasing and such - let you ears decide if it makes it sound better or worse! In theory as long as the two signals are different in enough, IE, one is detuned or one is slightly delayed (both tricks that Stevie Ray Vaughan and Eddie Van Halen used)

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I've had the capabilities to ADT (artificial double track) guitar parts for about 15 years. I tried it a few times but it never comes close to creating the desired effect. The sound of proper double tracking is still miles better. But to cheat, do what he says up there!

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Using a delay to make the right or left speaker come 5-20 milliseconds later than the other speaker usually is a nice way for artificial double tracking.

 

It's great live, but if you're using it to record, just do real double tracking. It'll always sound 10 times better than faking it.

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My Vetta II does a really nice job of Double Tracking, which is a built in feature.  It would be cool to successfully pull this off with the POD.  One trick is to set a single delay somewhere between 20 -50 ms.  Some people try to accomplish it with a chorus pedal as well and there are some effects pedals that have this feature; for example, the Rocktron Tsunami.

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You don't need to use Dual Amps in the POD to hard pan left and right.  A single amp is stereo.  Just place a Digital Delay on one of the Single Amp's outputs and set the delay to 20ms.  Hard Pan the mixer L and R of course.

 

Detune and Chorus also works but can sometimes have an unwanted phasing effect.

 

None of it sounds quite as good as playing it twice.  This is because you need the randomness of every note being slightly off-time and off-pitch.  I believe the AXE has this random feature to it's double tracking.  But for a couple grand more, I'd just play it twice.  Now for live performances the 20ms Delay sounds great.

 

Here's my tone with stereo capabilities.

 

http://www.ChildrenOfTheGraveBand.com/BlackSabbath.hbe

 

You may need to rename it to what your HD500 expects.

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So I got it set up and yeah I am seeing what you guys are saying.  It sounds awesome when I am playing through my headphones but listening to it recorded back it just doesn't have the same feel.  So even though I know how to do it... yeah I'll probably just play it twice when recording.  I used the dual amp with the 20ms delay in one channel approach.  The pitch glide way caused some odd phasing for me.  Cool as hell effect if that's what I wanted but not this time.  Thanks a ton for all the responses guys.

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Actually one last question... are studio EQ's stereo effects?  The patch I am using has 2 studio EQ's after the amp.  If what Joel_Brown said is true, then if those EQ's are stereo also I wont have to chew up double the blocks to eq both channels. 

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Actually one last question... are studio EQ's stereo effects?  The patch I am using has 2 studio EQ's after the amp.  If what Joel_Brown said is true, then if those EQ's are stereo also I wont have to chew up double the blocks to eq both channels. 

 

If you can open this doc it shows which effects are stereo/mono. http://line6.com/support/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=774

 

Found it here > http://line6.com/support/page/kb/_/pod/pod-hd/stereomono-fx-list-for-pod-hd-r567

 

If you know program opens that doc please let me know, lol.

Edited by Brazzy

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Here's a rich text format file I found on these forums a while ago:

 

Your Da Man! Thanks

 

So it looks like the EQ's are True Stereo.

Edited by Brazzy

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