Crank it up!

[cruisinon2]

you guys seem insane to me. Guitarists have been working with this issue since the 1930's on "real" amps...and with the advent of stomp boxes some had dozens of settings...yet they just got on and set their tones up at rehearsal and maybe tweaked the amp a bit at the gig.

 

I thought the whole point of helix was to be like a "real" amp?

I have not had previously with the Pod, the HD500 or now with the helix , any problems in leveling presets and setting tones.

I don't get it either. Leveling volumes is not hard. It doesn't require a PhD in theoretical physics. All one needs are ears, a volume knob, and the understanding that some minor adjustments will need to be made periodically. Big rooms, small rooms, live rooms, dead rooms, maybe the drummer isn't hitting as hard tonight so you're not turned up as much as usual...the list goes on. Too loud? Turn it down. Can't hear yourself at all, or your lead patch isn't cutting through enough tonight? Turn it up. Who cares if a dB meter thinks everything is just right? It's not analyzing the sound subjectively, but your brain is. Use it. The meter is just cranking out a number that can, and will be perceived differently depending on the circumstances...and perception is the only thing that matters.

[amsdenj]

Perception isn't the only thing that matters. So does the health of your ears. Sustained exposure to loud sounds definitely permanently damages your ears and those of your audience. A dB meter is useful for understanding the sound pressure levels you and your audience are being exposed to. That's useful and valuable information, and isn't subjective.

[cruisinon2]

Perception isn't the only thing that matters. So does the health of your ears. Sustained exposure to loud sounds definitely permanently damages your ears and those of your audience. A dB meter is useful for understanding the sound pressure levels you and your audience are being exposed to. That's useful and valuable information, and isn't subjective.

Should I run around to everyone on the beach and make sure they're wearing sunblock, too?

 

In nearly 25+ years of live performing, never once have I seen anyone wandering through the crowd with a dB meter because they were worried about the potential for hearing loss amongst the audience. Even a modest sized crowd of Friday night drunks will be nice and loud all by themselves... likely loud enough to cause damage with sufficient exposure. I've been in plenty of rooms where you have to shout to the person next to you when the band ISN'T playing. If you wish to be heard above that baseline drunken din, you're gonna have to turn it up a bit.

 

Fitted, flat response musicians' earplugs are a must for anyone who performs regularly (or frequent concert-goers) if you don't want to go deaf, but taking on the responsibility of safeguarding the hearing of everybody in the crowd is ridiculous...not to mention futile, unless you're drummer plays with nothing but brushes and you "Shhh!!!" the crowd between tunes.

[amsdenj]

In nearly 25+ years of live performing, never once have I seen anyone wandering through the crowd with a dB meter because they were worried about the potential for hearing loss amongst the audience. Even a modest sized crowd of Friday night drunks will be nice and loud all by themselves... likely loud enough to cause damage with sufficient exposure. I've been in plenty of rooms where you have to shout to the person next to you when the band ISN'T playing.

Agreed. But just because something is common doesn't make it right (Argumentum ad Populum I think). Protect your ears, and do what you can to avoid contributing to negative outcomes for those around you. That doesn't mean you have to solve it, just try to do your part.

 

Helix helps here because we can get the tones we need without being quite so loud. Yes we need to be loud, that's part of the power of music and is built into our evolution. But we can be smart too and exercise reasonable limits when we can.

[robbieb61]

Should I run around to everyone on the beach and make sure they're wearing sunblock, too?

 

In nearly 25+ years of live performing, never once have I seen anyone wandering through the crowd with a dB meter because they were worried about the potential for hearing loss amongst the audience. Even a modest sized crowd of Friday night drunks will be nice and loud all by themselves... likely loud enough to cause damage with sufficient exposure. I've been in plenty of rooms where you have to shout to the person next to you when the band ISN'T playing. If you wish to be heard above that baseline drunken din, you're gonna have to turn it up a bit.

 

Fitted, flat response musicians' earplugs are a must for anyone who performs regularly (or frequent concert-goers) if you don't want to go deaf, but taking on the responsibility of safeguarding the hearing of everybody in the crowd is ridiculous...not to mention futile, unless you're drummer plays with nothing but brushes and you "Shhh!!!" the crowd between tunes.

Crazily enough...in the early 1980's OSHA started cracking down on nightclubs down in Miami. 

If a band was more than 95 db 10 feet from the stage...the night club was fined. And if it happened a second time, the fine increased...and it went up exponentially. And enough citations and the club would lose it's business license.

 

You can imagine that nightmare. Here we are playing "hair metal" (which was the most popular music at that time), with a big-asss P.A. and light show and a 3 man road crew....and suddenly all of our P.A. was useless. We were actually too loud with the P.A. turned off. The drummer could hit his snare drum and be over the db limit. :(

 

It was a horror show for about 6 months.  All the clubs in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale were freakin' out. The club owners would be checking us every few minutes with a DB meter because OSHA was making "surprise" visits with their DB meter at all times of the night. 

 

That repressive regulation was dropped a few months later after massive protest from the nightclub industry (even DJ's had to abide by it). 

It really, really sucked. 

 

Especially when your playing Judas Priest "You Got Another Thing Comin'" at the volume of a mosquito. lol

[cruisinon2]

Crazily enough...in the early 1980's OSHA started cracking down on nightclubs down in Miami.

If a band was more than 95 db 10 feet from the stage...the night club was fined. And if it happened a second time, the fine increased...and it went up exponentially. And enough citations and the club would lose it's business license.

 

You can imagine that nightmare. Here we are playing "hair metal" (which was the most popular music at that time), with a big-asss P.A. and light show and a 3 man road crew....and suddenly all of our P.A. was useless. We were actually too loud with the P.A. turned off. The drummer could hit his snare drum and be over the db limit. :(

 

It was a horror show for about 6 months. All the clubs in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale were freakin' out. The club owners would be checking us every few minutes with a DB meter because OSHA was making "surprise" visits with their DB meter at all times of the night.

 

That repressive regulation was dropped a few months later after massive protest from the nightclub industry (even DJ's had to abide by it).

It really, really sucked.

 

Especially when your playing Judas Priest "You Got Another Thing Comin'" at the volume of a mosquito. lol

Lol... what a joke. But fair enough, I'll rephrase. I've never seen anyone but a useless gov't bureaucrat would wander through a crowd of drunks with a dB meter.😂

 

Imho, this ill-conceived regulation almost certainly had nothing to do with the professional hand-wringers at OSHA losing sleep over the fate of anybody's eardrums...otherwise it would have been happening everywhere, as OSHA is a Federal agency. Why only pick on Miami when they could be raking in revenue everywhere? (Oops! I meant enforcing important workplace safety regulations ;) ). Or perhaps it's just Floridian eardrums that are especially sensitive and in need of gov't protection? But I digress...I'll bet money that some well-connected neighbor of one of those clubs didn't like the noise and pulled a few strings to initiate said "crackdown". Your tax dollars at work, keeping society safe from cover bands. Heroes, one and all those regulatory drones...

[HonestOpinion]

Crazily enough...in the early 1980's OSHA started cracking down on nightclubs down in Miami. 

If a band was more than 95 db 10 feet from the stage...the night club was fined. And if it happened a second time, the fine increased...and it went up exponentially. And enough citations and the club would lose it's business license.

 

You can imagine that nightmare. Here we are playing "hair metal" (which was the most popular music at that time), with a big-asss P.A. and light show and a 3 man road crew....and suddenly all of our P.A. was useless. We were actually too loud with the P.A. turned off. The drummer could hit his snare drum and be over the db limit. :(

 

It was a horror show for about 6 months.  All the clubs in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale were freakin' out. The club owners would be checking us every few minutes with a DB meter because OSHA was making "surprise" visits with their DB meter at all times of the night. 

 

That repressive regulation was dropped a few months later after massive protest from the nightclub industry (even DJ's had to abide by it). 

It really, really sucked. 

 

Especially when your playing Judas Priest "You Got Another Thing Comin'" at the volume of a mosquito. lol

 

Interesting, I wonder if this had anything to do with the relatively geriatric demographic in those towns, particularly in the eighties. At least you had a genuine band going. I don't know those areas well but I remember walking down the nightclub strip in Miami Beach sometime in the late 90's, maybe early 2000's, and being horrified that every club seemed to have either a DJ, or if they were really going for an authentic band sound, a keyboardist with drum tracks rolling and maybe one other accompanist. There was nary a real full band to be be seen. Everything was like ersatz music played on a Casio or alternatively a wedding DJ. It reminded me of those old Saturday Night Live routines with WIll Ferrell and Ana Gasteyer.  I hope their live music scene has improved since then.

 

My memories of the Miami Beach Music scene:

[robbieb61]

No, these weren't clubs that were near any "geriatric" people. 

These were huge nightclubs down in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale (on the strip).  
And they were all in commercial zoned business areas. There were no homes within miles. 

Why OSHA did it I'll never know. And I have no idea if they were doing it nationwide either. During that period I was working with King Music booking agency and there were at least 3 dozen A-Circuit monster nightclubs in Dade and Broward county's that had rock bands. Some of them even had two bands a night. So I wasn't forced to tour all over the country in that part of the 1980's. The music biz was very, very good. 
We played 7 nights a week every week. And some of the clubs (like The Button South in Hallandale) held thousands of people. 

It's not what you guys are envisioning at all. We weren't playing the little clubs of today in the middle of residential neighborhoods. This was back when musicians and live bands had value. 
These days? I'm lucky if the clubs I play in even have a stage. lol

[HonestOpinion]

No, these weren't clubs that were near any "geriatric" people. 

 

These were huge nightclubs down in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale (on the strip).  

And they were all in commercial zoned business areas. There were no homes within miles. 

 

Why OSHA did it I'll never know. And I have no idea if they were doing it nationwide either. During that period I was working with King Music booking agency and there were at least 3 dozen A-Circuit monster nightclubs in Dade and Broward county's that had rock bands. Some of them even had two bands a night. So I wasn't forced to tour all over the country in that part of the 1980's. The music biz was very, very good. 

We played 7 nights a week every week. And some of the clubs (like The Button South in Hallandale) held thousands of people. 

 

It's not what you guys are envisioning at all. We weren't playing the little clubs of today in the middle of residential neighborhoods. This was back when musicians and live bands had value. 

These days? I'm lucky if the clubs I play in even have a stage. lol

 

Not surprised to hear that someone more savvy about those areas would know where the better clubs were. Just recounting my experience from the viewpoint of a tourist at Miami Beach. I remember coming away from there thinking the town had the worst music scene I had ever witnessed. I have had no such difficulty finding decent music made by full bands in other major cities and even some smaller cities. Perfectly happy to admit though that it could just have been my own ignorance about where to go.  I will say however that it was club after club that had acts that fit my description above. This was not one or two isolated venues.  I remember coming away from that trip thinking that it must be a "thing" at Miami Beach to not have real drummers or full bands there were so many clubs doing it.  Maybe it was a passing fad or bands trying to economize by hiring the minimum possible number of musicians to pay. Glad you had a better experience there as a player despite the noise ordinance nonsense.

[robbieb61]

Oh yeah, by the 1990's the live rock band scene was done. Not just in Miami but everywhere. 
And if you were at Miami beach during that time...that's a whole different world than Miami itself and Ft. Lauderdale. 

Back in the 1980's Miami Beach was deserted. There were cheap $80 a week apartments full of senior citizens. All the real action for live music was happening in the Kendall area of Miami off U.S. 1

Of course these days...Miami Beach is high dollar real estate and slammed with tourists and nightlife. I was down there just a month ago on business. And it was crazy! :)
Tons of hot women running around half naked and the beaches are packed. 
Huge difference from back in 1983 when I first went to Miami Beach and rode down Collins Ave. and my car was the ONLY car on the road in the middle of the day! Now it's like driving in NYC  on Collins Ave.

But anyway...yeah, they were doing the DB meter thing and it was a nightmare. 

Caused a ton of tension between bands and club owners and our booking agents. As you can imagine, the club owners did NOT want to get in trouble with the govt. because the bands were too loud.

These days it would be easy to comply. Amp modeler for guitar going straight to the P.A. and floor monitor. Bass player going straight into a DI to the P.A. and floor monitor. And drummer with a set of Roland drums.  
But back then...I was using a Mesa Boogie amp (original one) with a Marshall stack for cabs. Our bassist used an Ampeg SVT with 2 8 x10 SVT cabs. Our other guitarist had a Marshall half stack. And our keyboardist had an actual Leslie cabinet onstage as well as an electric Yamaha baby grand. 
It was very difficult to play loud rock music...at low volume. heh-heh