Please ensure Javascript is enabled for purposes of website accessibility Jump to content

FX Looop Within Amp Block?


artkingjw
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello guys,

 

I've got a question about what the Helix can do as far as FX loops go. Tried searching for this but haven't seen anything that answers this question, maybe I just haven't used the right terms.

 

Can the Helix amp model blocks have an FX Loop within them, between the pre and power amp. In otherwords, just like my real life amp, there is a 'send' after the pre-amp, and a 'return' feeding into the power-amp.

 

Guitar > Pre-amp > FX Loop > Power-amp > Cab

 

My understanding is it cannot be done, with the closest thing possible being:

 

Guitar > Pre-amp > Power-amp >  FX Loop > Cab

 

 

I'm not the most skilled when it comes to this sort of stuff, but I have been playing around with Line 6 gear for a while now, currently own a HD500, considering an upgrade to the Helix. I'm used to setting my delays and reverbs up like this to control the amount of distortion of the trails, as well as for different effects on modulation.

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it's not possible because the Helix's amps only come in "Preamp" and "Amp" variations, where "Amp" is the preamp and power amp.  You can put effects and loops between a full amp model and it's cab by disabling the amp models cab and adding a discrete one. 

 

While this may not be what we're used to, consider that almost all the studio recording you've ever heard have a mix of effects before the preamps and post mic/cab.  The few times I've been in the studio, the engineer SHUDDERS when I use the effects loop.  The original invention of the effects loop was to try to get a live sound that is closer to a studio sound, where time domain effects are after the mic/cam combination.  So in one respect, Helix and most other modelers are a step up from the good old days of  FX loops of real amps, but it's still a shame that we can't do it if we want to because of the missing free-standing power-amp models.    

 

Back to the other side of the coin:  a delay hitting your phase inverter and power tubes will make for a different kind of breakup, which can be really special sounding... It's odd that we can do this with the Helix in a 4CM configuration, but not in standalone config with amp modeling along :(

 

Hope this helps, 

Dave

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it's not possible because the Helix's amps only come in "Preamp" and "Amp" variations, where "Amp" is the preamp and power amp.  You can put effects and loops between a full amp model and it's cab by disabling the amp models cab and adding a discrete one. 

 

While this may not be what we're used to, consider that almost all the studio recording you've ever heard have a mix of effects before the preamps and post mic/cab.  The few times I've been in the studio, the engineer SHUDDERS when I use the effects loop.  The original invention of the effects loop was to try to get a live sound that is closer to a studio sound, where time domain effects are after the mic/cam combination.  So in one respect, Helix and most other modelers are a step up from the good old days of  FX loops of real amps, but it's still a shame that we can't do it if we want to because of the missing free-standing power-amp models.    

 

Back to the other side of the coin:  a delay hitting your phase inverter and power tubes will make for a different kind of breakup, which can be really special sounding... It's odd that we can do this with the Helix in a 4CM configuration, but not in standalone config with amp modeling along :(

 

Hope this helps, 

Dave

oh? I never knew that, thanks.

 

But man, yes have I fallen in love with the delays and reverbs hitting a stressed power section. Sad we can't do that...

 

Actually with modularity being more of a thing with the Helix, I wonder if they can program that in and deliver it as a future update?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it's not possible because the Helix's amps only come in "Preamp" and "Amp" variations, where "Amp" is the preamp and power amp.  You can put effects and loops between a full amp model and it's cab by disabling the amp models cab and adding a discrete one. 

 

I always thought it would be behave like this

- the effects placed before the amp block in helix would behave the same as I would put them between Guitar and Input of the real amp

- the effects placed after the amp block in the helix is routed like I would place them in the effects loop of a real amp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always thought it would be behave like this

- the effects placed before the amp block in helix would behave the same as I would put them between Guitar and Input of the real amp

- the effects placed after the amp block in the helix is routed like I would place them in the effects loop of a real amp

If my experience with the HD500 is anything to go by, I don't think so, although I could be wrong. For instance, when I place a Tape Delay (wet) behind a full amp, it craps itself. I always felt a bit of a bummer never being able to put the tape in the FX loop, where it probably won't sound so buzzed out, but still carry the dirt from the pre amp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If my experience with the HD500 is anything to go by, I don't think so, although I could be wrong. For instance, when I place a Tape Delay (wet) behind a full amp, it craps itself. I always felt a bit of a bummer never being able to put the tape in the FX loop, where it probably won't sound so buzzed out, but still carry the dirt from the pre amp.

 

I would say that the models on the HD500 and Helix react completely differently from each other, so your experience on the HD500 isn't really anything to go by...

 

Personally, I do like the way many effects react after the amp block and before the cab block on the Helix. It's a nice feature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always thought it would be behave like this

- the effects placed before the amp block in helix would behave the same as I would put them between Guitar and Input of the real amp

- the effects placed after the amp block in the helix is routed like I would place them in the effects loop of a real amp

Erm, no, not really - at least your second point isn't quite what I'd said.  When you put a real effect in a real effects loop, there's usually 1/2 of a 12ax7 (or 12at7) dual triode before the effect, and another 1/2 preamp buffer tube after it, followed by the phase inverter tube and then the power tubes and output transformer.   That's a LOT going on post-effect when you use an effects loop, but the biggest part is the cab's high frequency attenuation of anything the effect does.  When you place an effect between one of Helix's amp blocks and a cab block, it is after the aforementioned preamp buffer tube, phase inverter, power tubes and output transformer.  Usually in the studio you'd have reverb and delays, even modulation effects added after all that AND after the speaker, the mic, the mic pre and maybe the board's EQ.   Each of these permutations sounds different - for better or for worse.  More commonly it sounds better to have studio effects after the cab and mic, IMHO, and it also sounds more like what we're used to hearing on most recordings, and of course, with the Helix, if we so choose....

 

Whew - sorry for the long windedness...

 

Cheers! 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...