New Helix Owner - Couple questions...

[sheehanje]

I've just splurged on a Helix.  Got a decent price on a demo unit that was in pristine condition.

 

Right now I use a Line 6 M13 that I connect via 4 Cable Method to a Mark V.   I do channel switching with a Mini Amp Gizmo.   It worked ok, but I wanted one unit that I can play in my rig AND for quiet sessions at home late nights....  The Helix seems like it should do both...

 

I haven't tested the Helix with my Mesa amp yet - just fooling with amp/cab modelling and loading some IR's for testing.  I was worried cause a lot of the factory presets were pretty wonky - in fact, Pod Farm 2 has better presets than the helix.  But I remembered my PodXT Live had less than desirable presets but sounded decent once I set it up...

 

Anyways - I digress.   How hard is 4 Cable method with Helix?   Also - would it be best for me to keep using the Mini Amp Gizmo?  I think it offers more options for switching on my amp - but is it as easy as the M13?  I know I should just try it - but I don't get to play my live rig at home much.  

 

One final question,  I have an Ernie Ball Music Man (Majesty) which has a built in boost.   This won't hurt the Helix in any way would it?  I've been keeping it off for now.   

[glideman]

If you want to sound close in the headphones to what you play amplified, most here would recommend using a powered full range monitor of some sort for FRGR. Then you can fully utilize the Helix amp models as they were meant to be heard.

[sheehanje]

If you want to sound close in the headphones to what you play amplified, most here would recommend using a powered full range monitor of some sort for FRGR. Then you can fully utilize the Helix amp models as they were meant to be heard.

 

 

I'm hoping to keep as much sound of my Mesa Mark V as I can.  So making sure this unit has minimal to no tone suck is important.  Not really looking to do Amp or Cabinet modelling in a live setting.   Unfortunately Helix doesn't have anything that sounds close to any of the Mark series amps - just the Dual Rec.

[glideman]

Yeah, we're hoping they come out with some Mesa Mark tones

[mileskb]

I'm hoping to keep as much sound of my Mesa Mark V as I can.  So making sure this unit has minimal to no tone suck is important.  Not really looking to do Amp or Cabinet modelling in a live setting.   Unfortunately Helix doesn't have anything that sounds close to any of the Mark series amps - just the Dual Rec.

 

It sounds like you may need a new approach.   Being that the presets have amp+Cab models in them, they are going to be pretty crappy sending them into your real amp.   What you'll want to do is just use the effects you want, out to your amp.

 

Now for getting something for headsets or an FRFR, you'll have to find a model that is close to what you are using and tweak it.

 

Helix is a very powerful and unique tool.  You can't just dial up "US Double NRM" and expect it to sound like a Fender Twin, as it's not a model of a Fender Twin, it's a model of the "components" of a Fender twin, designed to act on each other much like they do in that amp.

 

So what you will need to do is go to a blank patch and add and an amp block and a speaker block.  Then find an amp and speaker that is close to your Mesa in components.   Once you get close, (same tubes, same type of gain etc.) you can go mess with all the sag, ripple, bias etc...  and of course tone and gain, to get the sound closest to your real amp, without effects.  Once there, you can then add the effects back in.

 

Hope this helps.  I'm sure there are other approaches too.

[sheehanje]

It sounds like you may need a new approach.   Being that the presets have amp+Cab models in them, they are going to be pretty crappy sending them into your real amp.   What you'll want to do is just use the effects you want, out to your amp.

 

Now for getting something for headsets or an FRFR, you'll have to find a model that is close to what you are using and tweak it.

 

Helix is a very powerful and unique tool.  You can't just dial up "US Double NRM" and expect it to sound like a Fender Twin, as it's not a model of a Fender Twin, it's a model of the "components" of a Fender twin, designed to act on each other much like they do in that amp.

 

So what you will need to do is go to a blank patch and add and an amp block and a speaker block.  Then find an amp and speaker that is close to your Mesa in components.   Once you get close, (same tubes, same type of gain etc.) you can go mess with all the sag, ripple, bias etc...  and of course tone and gain, to get the sound closest to your real amp, without effects.  Once there, you can then add the effects back in.

 

Hope this helps.  I'm sure there are other approaches too.

 

I understand I can't just use the presets with my amp.  My usual goal with effects is quality over quantity.   Even on the M13, I only used a handful of effects and only the ones I thought were really good.

 

I like not to have to rely just on the Helix too - so if the unit stops operating in a live setting, I can plug straight into my amp and still sound good.   

 

For home practice, I am sending this through a Focusrite Scartlette 18i20 via S/PDIF and it sounds absolutely incredible coming out of some smallish JBL Studio Monitors.    While I haven't found any models close to what I already have in the Mesa - there are plenty that sound really good -  they may become my second guitar track sounds in the studio.   Who knows, eventually maybe I will be running an amp and a FRFR live.  But I'll wait till I get some roadies - lol.

 

My main questions are still about how the 4 cable method works with Helix and if the mini amp gizmo will work with the Helix just as easy as it did with the M13...  oh, and if there is any tonesuck using this with a tube ampe?

[tmntshredder]

I understand I can't just use the presets with my amp. My usual goal with effects is quality over quantity. Even on the M13, I only used a handful of effects and only the ones I thought were really good.

 

I like not to have to rely just on the Helix too - so if the unit stops operating in a live setting, I can plug straight into my amp and still sound good.

 

For home practice, I am sending this through a Focusrite Scartlette 18i20 via S/PDIF and it sounds absolutely incredible coming out of some smallish JBL Studio Monitors. While I haven't found any models close to what I already have in the Mesa - there are plenty that sound really good - they may become my second guitar track sounds in the studio. Who knows, eventually maybe I will be running an amp and a FRFR live. But I'll wait till I get some roadies - lol.

 

My main questions are still about how the 4 cable method works with Helix and if the mini amp gizmo will work with the Helix just as easy as it did with the M13... oh, and if there is any tonesuck using this with a tube ampe?

Helix is very transparent with little to no tone loss. It sounds great in 4cm and has lots of amazing effects. While FRFR is your best option for use with the amp models, there are plenty of great tones to be had running through your amp and speaker cabinet. Not sure you will need your mini amp gizmo with Helix as it has external amp switching built in. It doesn't work with all amp though, so you will want to see if your amp in compatible. Mine isn't, but I use MIDI.

[sheehanje]

Helix is very transparent with little to no tone loss. It sounds great in 4cm and has lots of amazing effects. While FRFR is your best option for use with the amp models, there are plenty of great tones to be had running through your amp and speaker cabinet. Not sure you will need your mini amp gizmo with Helix as it has external amp switching built in. It doesn't work with all amp though, so you will want to see if your amp in compatible. Mine isn't, but I use MIDI.

 

 

I found out yesterday how it works with my amp - and so far great.   I was a little confused because I used the 4 Cable Method template on the unit, and the Line6 has a video showing the 4 cable a little different - but I got some awesome sounds dialed in.   Also found out it works with my Mini Amp Gizmo - so changing patches will allow me to change channels, reverb, eq, etc. on my Mesa Mark V...   I need to see if I can setup buttons to change the channels in the same patch though, otherwise I'm going to get a delay when switching - not good live.

 

So far I'm really impressed with the unit - just need to figure out an issue I'm having with S/PDIF, but it may be my recording interface...   Thanks for all the replies...

[PeterHamm]

Not sure how much improvement in tone you're going to hear if you're only using amp tones, honestly. You'll gain a lot more flexibility, which you may or may not need. you'll gain ease of use (although only if you're doing esoteric things... the M13 is easier to use than any piece of gear I've seen like that).

The key to 4CM with Helix, from what I've seen here (not doing it myself) is setting those loops to instrument level.

That said, if you're happy with M13, you might be better served by supplementing it with some drive pedals or such.

[fukuri]

The key improvement with the M13 is the number of FX I can have on though

By the time I've stacked a OD and a Tube driver and put a reverb in I've got one slot for delay or modulation

[sheehanje]

Not sure how much improvement in tone you're going to hear if you're only using amp tones, honestly. You'll gain a lot more flexibility, which you may or may not need. you'll gain ease of use (although only if you're doing esoteric things... the M13 is easier to use than any piece of gear I've seen like that).

 

The key to 4CM with Helix, from what I've seen here (not doing it myself) is setting those loops to instrument level.

 

That said, if you're happy with M13, you might be better served by supplementing it with some drive pedals or such.

 

  There are some serious advantages to the Helix.   First of all, I just got back from a 3 hour session setting this up with my amp and they sound fantastic together.  The Helix is in a different league than the M13 as far as effects quality and routing.  While the M13 is really easy to configure the effects themselves, a lot of the system/global settings weren't always easy to navigate.   Also, being able to use the expression pedal to kick on the Wah is awesome, I don't need to bring my Crybaby with me anymore - not only that but I prefer the Helix Wah models - they feel much closer to the real thing.  One other thing about the M13 is I get some tone suck using 4CM.  I haven't noticed it on Helix.

 

   Also, the Helix does do modelling - so there is flexibility.  While I won't use FRFR live, I definitely like the convenience of have a compact modeler for session at home.  Or I can just pack up my studio monitors and bring them over to my bass players house for a quieter practice/writing session.

 

My thing is, I rarely change much with my live rig once I get it where I want - and right now I have it about 90% there with the Helix already.   That says how easy it is to dial in sounds via 4 cable - I've only had the unit since Thursday..    The M13 took me much much longer to get to a state I like.

 

The final thing I will say about Helix is that while I don't change my live setup much, I can approximate that sound in Helix then I can experiment to my hearts content without making a disaster of what I already have.   I'm just hoping Line6 releases some Mesa Mark series models at some point...

 

I'm really happy with the results so far....