DT25 vs Pod500, 4CM vs L6, etc

[JFrankParnell]

Pre purchase research, here... I'm not really getting how the pod fits into the chain, when youre using the L6 cable.  And then how it works with the onboard 'topographies' and the pod amps.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 4 onboard sounds are the exact same tech as the preamps in the pod?  And therefore, youre getting no improvements or even additionals, by joining the two?  Youre just picking a model either from onboard or pod, and there are 4 duplicates?

 

With the L6, where does it inject the signal? into the the amp's input? Or the amp's power amp?  I get that youre 'sposta' use the pod's 'preamp only' models, but I see that lots of guys are using the full model, and I wonder if the use of L6 vs regular inputs have bearing on that?

 

If you were using the amps preamp, and the L6, can you use the pod as fx, in the amp's loop?  Or would you have to use 4CM method?  In other words, if I were using the amp's preamp, I could free up space, on the pod, and use it only for fx. 

[seldon1]

Well I ise the HD500X to control the DT's settings and have plenty of room for effects. Using L6 link and pre amp settings with no cab simulation, the HD500X when going from patch to patch is doing exactly the same thing as changing voicings, gain, volume, ect. on the amp by hand.

[geppert]

If you were using the amps preamp, and the L6, can you use the pod as fx, in the amp's loop?  Or would you have to use 4CM method?  In other words, if I were using the amp's preamp, I could free up space, on the pod, and use it only for fx. 

 

I tried this approach for a while. If my memory serves me well, (using the Line 6 digital Link) I believe you just switch to "Channel B" on the amp manually and you get the amp doing it's business with it's selected internal pre-amp etc.,  and the POD then becomes in essence strictly an efx pedal? I might be wrong but I think that's how it works? The POD's preamp and output mapping controls Channel A on the amp. Other's here will correct me if I am wrong.

 

In the end I went back to using the POD entirely as a front end for the amp, just the way it is designed to work, I tried every single preamp in the POD and found something that works for my needs then added the specific efx I needed to various foot switches and that's entirely what I run with. The elusive search for the perfect tone is different for everybody. The amp does sound pretty darn good by itself. It is just about experimenting and finding what works for you.

 

Reading back through your post, I do remember some threads in the past about the differential between using the POD's preamps vs using the Amp's preamps. Some say they sound the same, some say they sound different. You'll have to be your own judge on that. The Line 6 Digital Link from POD to DT technically makes the two the same but some say not. Check those threads out ... they are quite interesting.

 

Personally I love my DT25. I think it is technically unique. I definitely prefer the head/cab over the combo.

[Palico]

Basically the POD over the L6 link, the Pre-amps in the DT are not being used but are provided by the POD unit (That may not be fully technically correct but it is functionally what it does). This gives you a lot more Pre amps. They are supposed to sound exactly the same using the "Pre" on the POD if you choose the same one that is in the DT. Some claim they do sound a bit different, personally to me the sound the same.  So using the POD you get a lot more amp models and all changeable but just selecting the patch on the POD. Also the knobs are integrated over the L6 link. So adjusting say the "Bass" knob manually on the amp changes it in the POD amps settings. Of course you need to save the patch for it to remembered if you changed patches, and the DT doesn't have motorized knobs so they will not necessary be what the patch actually is when changing back and forth. One catch on that is the channel "Reverb" knob is not intergrated to the POD and is it's own reverb so you might want to set it to zero if you using reverb on the POD. That one I've always found a bit odd but strangely useful for a quick change in reverb to suit the room. Plus if you like the reverb on the DT, it could save some DSP on the POD should it be needed.

On the "Pre", from my understanding are the Amp minus the Power amp, but do include speaker and mic emulations. Some people have decided to turn off the Cab simulations to just the natural sound of the DT speakers (or their cab if using a different cab). Some people have found using the full amp models sound better to them. Just a matter of taste and what works best for the tone you are after. 

Channel "A" is used on the DT when using L6 Link. Channel "B" is not used. So you can change to channel "B", manually or using a different foot switch attached to the DT but you have none of the POD (no FX) on that channel if you do, over the L6 link.

You can use the 4 cord method with the DT if you want to use the DT as standalone 2 channel amp. You can use a third party tool to select which amp model "Pre" are loaded to the DT but of course that limits you to using pretty much only 2 at once using only foot switch for the amp channel. You could of course use get 4 "Pre" models per channel using the topogoly switch. This can work if you need more DSP for the POD but it's not nearly as automated to patches as using the L6 Link. Really unless you use a lot of DSP I'm not sure why anyone would want to do this way. With exception to those that just hear a difference in the DT running standalone.

And of course the DT can be used like any amp with normal pedals.

 

From my experice over the years with amp modelers, I've found it often a lot better to ignore what this model or that model is supposed emulate, and instead just play with it to find that tone you are looking for. This can be time consuming approach but the results are often better and it's kind of fun exercise in tone.

[JFrankParnell]

Cool, thanks for all input...

I'm mostly thinking that it would be cool to offload the amp and reverb to the dt25 and use the pod for fx and presets.  I feel like the 4 models on the DT would would suit me, however, on the Line6 site, it mentions 30 other preamps, that can be loaded.  So, if this is possible, I could see myself switching the Mesa out for a Plexi or something like that.

 

But, yeah, I dont usually have tons of fx running at the same time, but I want more fx, in my patches, to choose from.  For example, in my pod, i have

wah-comp-screamer-fuzz-amp-reverb-phaser-delay-volume.  ( I realize i dont have to have the volume as an fx, but i wanted 50%-100%, not 0%-100%).  If I could use the DT amp and reverb, I'd have two more slots for like univibe and chorus or a crazy reverb or mod-delay or whatever.

[spaceatl]

You know about the Channel Volume volume pedal trick? saves a slot.

[Palico]

Using the Reverb off the amp saves a slot

Assigning the Pedal to the channel volume save the slot for the volume pedal.

Those two could be used for an extra effect on the POD and both can be done over the Link6 Link.

 

 

Not using the Pre/amp Model off the POD doesn't open up the POD HD for anything new. It's just set to none. So not using the L6 link for that doesn't save you anything but DSP. The POD HD has only so many slots for effects.  It's not like the Helix in that aspect.

 

I'm not trying to argue for the L6 link, just making sure you understand the choices available.

[JFrankParnell]

Oh, lollipop, youre right, the amp slot is always the amp slot, even if it's off (disabled).  So yeah, All I can do is offload the reverb to the amp and take the pedal out of the fx. 

[radatats]

1. without the HD500 and L6 link your DT is effectively just a 2 channel amp even if you have 8 models loaded.  Since the control knobs positions are not remembered, changing voicing on eiher channel requires new tweaking manually.  Believe me going from a Blackface to a Treadplate can be a shock at full volume.  With the POD everything is remembered with the patch and you can access and level all 30 amps.

 

2. without the HD500 and L6 link your DT can't change cabs without reconfiguring with a midi interface.

 

3. without the HD500 and L6 link your DT can't change NFL topology.  Changing the topology switch changes voicing and pulls up a different amp/cab combination, it doesn't change the topology of the amp you are using.  With the POD you can change the topology and class of the current amp model.

 

4. without the HD500 and L6 link your DT can't blend 2 amps and cabs.  With the POD you can create dual amp patches and seamlessly morph between them.  The physical DT power section stays locked to Channel A but you can create totally new tones.