Using Helix to record practice session

[sheehanje]

I've been thinking of ways to use the Line 6 Helix to record my bands practice sessions now that we are going back into writing mode.   I've thought about picking up a Zoom field recorder - but maybe I can figure out a way to do the same thing with the Helix.

 

Right now I run helix 4CM to my Mesa JP-2C for practice and shows.  I just haven't seemed to be able to match that sound with the helix through Stagesource speakers (I have 2 L3T's).  I do use the full modeling capability for home recording - but live and rehearsal I want to keep using 4CM.  My 4CM uses up Guitar In, Send/Return 1, and Send 2 - I don't use the 1/4" out because I like to disable use of the volume control when using with an amp.

 

So that presents challenges for recording the band.  I don't need anything fancy - just something that I can go back over ideas that we've hashed out at rehearsal.

 

Arrangement is simple, Drums, Bass, Singer, Guitar.   I could get away with just a couple room mic's - but Helix only has 1 XLR with a mic preamp.  

 

So I am thinking, recording the guitar signal dry - then I can reamp it when home - bringing the singer in to the mic preamp, and then doing a run from bass straight in, then back out to his amp.   But that leaves the drums...   Not sure how I could bring them in.

 

I guess I could bring my focusrite interface, but trying to get everything done through helix.   I could also just simply do the single microphone and record the whole band with just that - but in my experience, having 2 setup with some kind of stereo field always works better.   What would my options be for adding a second microphone?

 

It would be ideal for me to just have the helix as my primary recording interface, I can then just bring my surface tablet and have a compact setup in a limited space.

[FlyingsCool]

You didn't say which Focusrite you use, but, in my experience, I prefer to use my 6i6 for recording jam sessions of more than just me.  I bring in the Helix through the s/pdif, and that leaves me 4 more inputs, you could bring in drum mics through a mixing board into one track, then there's 3 more.  I just find it really useful to have each instrument/voice on a different track when mixing the sessions down later.  Yeah, they're just scratch stuff, but, I like being able to isolate instruments later.  It's just not so easy to use a room mic 'cause it can be hard to balance the volumes of the various instruments later.  Plus, by isolating instruments, you can try out different ideas later if you want...  Then again, it all depends on how much effort you want to put in.  Then again, once you get your setup the way you like, it's easy enough to set up again

[FlyingsCool]

Otherwise, you could still bring your focusrite, or some other mic pre, and hook up your room mics from the focusrite into your available returns.  Problem I see with that is you'll need to set up those returns in all your presets.  Just seems easier to me to use a dedicated interface once it's more than just the Helix....

[DunedinDragon]

By the time you went through all of that hassle you could have just as easily gotten something like what I have which is a Zoom R16.  Then you just setup everyone the same way as they would be setup in a performance (direct in or mic'd to the R16 like it was a PA) and capture it as individual .WAV channels on an SD memory card you can import into your DAW.  You end up with a MUCH cleaner capture.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R16?adpos=1o3&creative=54989510161&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=R16&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrsDIBRDX3JCunOrr_YYBEiQAifH1FuHK2BLmvUnaodlZCu7GtG1fMP8fM9LP40d6aovNzzAaAh3C8P8HAQ

 

Here's an example of a capture I made at a practice on one of these after I mixed it on my home DAW.

 

https://soundcloud.com/dunedindragon/gods-children-1

[FlyingsCool]

By the time you went through all of that hassle you could have just as easily gotten something like what I have which is a Zoom R16.  Then you just setup everyone the same way as they would be setup in a performance (direct in or mic'd to the R16 like it was a PA) and capture it as individual .WAV channels on an SD memory card you can import into your DAW.  You end up with a MUCH cleaner capture.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R16?adpos=1o3&creative=54989510161&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=R16&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrsDIBRDX3JCunOrr_YYBEiQAifH1FuHK2BLmvUnaodlZCu7GtG1fMP8fM9LP40d6aovNzzAaAh3C8P8HAQ

 

Nice, I've been looking for something like that.

[DunedinDragon]

Nice, I've been looking for something like that.

 

Check my post again.  I edited and posted an example of a recording I did with mine.

[sheehanje]

You didn't say which Focusrite you use, but, in my experience, I prefer to use my 6i6 for recording jam sessions of more than just me.  I bring in the Helix through the s/pdif, and that leaves me 4 more inputs, you could bring in drum mics through a mixing board into one track, then there's 3 more.  

 

Focusrite is the 18i20 - I was trying to avoid a full recording setup - this is just for scratch recording to keep an "idea repository"....   I actually hate acting the part of recording engineer when doing practice -  been there, done that...

 

Whenever I use SPDIF on helix to focusrite I get shocked.   A ground problem somewhere - but I never really took the time to troubleshoot.

 

I just talked to my drummer - we may try an all electric setup.   I just don't know if I'm using the helix only, or maybe the focusrite.  Was thinking of bringing the drummers electric kit in via midi in to trigger Superior Drummer - then ditching the amps - creating a path for guitar and one for bass.   The only issue I see is according to the original documentation - it recommends Bass be used in Aux with active pickups - my bass player doesn't do active pickups.  Not sure if this is still the case.

 

I could use the Stagesource L3T's as "monitors".

 

Sometimes there are too many options!

[FlyingsCool]

Check my post again.  I edited and posted an example of a recording I did with mine.

 

That's awesome.  I love that you don't need a DAW to do the recording... Always a pain to set up between songs for each song.  Here, you can just press and play.  I didn't look at the details, I assume it "groups" tracks from each on/off on the record button?  I suppose it at least time stamps them so it should be easy enough to figure out what's what.  Lot's of used units out there, too for really reasonable prices.  Thanks, probably my next purchase.

[DunedinDragon]

That's awesome.  I love that you don't need a DAW to do the recording... Always a pain to set up between songs for each song.  Here, you can just press and play.  I didn't look at the details, I assume it "groups" tracks from each on/off on the record button?  I suppose it at least time stamps them so it should be easy enough to figure out what's what.  Lot's of used units out there, too for really reasonable prices.  Thanks, probably my next purchase.

 

Each track is a separate .WAV file and you import them one by one into your DAW on different channels.  You can either break them up as separate recordings by pressing record and stop and incrementing the session number for the next cut, or just put time marker flags in.  I prefer separate recordings because they're easier to import into the DAW

[sheehanje]

Helix never ceases to amaze me...   So I got my patch setup for recording the band tomorrow - I semi-tested it.

 

Setup is simple,  Helix to Laptop loaded with Reaper and Superior Drummer

 

Guitar to guitar in  --- Goes to USB1/2

  

Bass to  aux in   Goes to USB3/4

 

Vocals to mic in   Goes to USB5/6

 

The drummer is using his electric kit, which goes to midi in on the helix - I tested with a midi keyboard - so it's just a matter of replacing the keyboard with his drums then mapping them to superior drummer

 

Then I use the L6 Link to 2 Stagesource L3T speakers...

 

 

I setup 3 paths on the helix.   The bass with compression, amp and cab.  Vocals with some reverb.   The guitar is a little more complex - but still easy - I just use snapshots to control clean, rhythm, lead.    I can't get as fancy as I could because the other paths are used for bass and vocals, but I usually keep things pretty simple anyway.

 

So the Helix patch is saved, and the Reaper template is already made.   We should be up and going in 30 - 45 minutes.   Once the drummer is mapped, the whole setup is about 10 minutes for subsequent practices.  Crazy.

 

This saves me having to bring my Focusrite and also saves me a ton of cabling.   Can't wait until we try it out tomorrow.

[specracer986]

By the time you went through all of that hassle you could have just as easily gotten something like what I have which is a Zoom R16.  Then you just setup everyone the same way as they would be setup in a performance (direct in or mic'd to the R16 like it was a PA) and capture it as individual .WAV channels on an SD memory card you can import into your DAW.  You end up with a MUCH cleaner capture.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R16?adpos=1o3&creative=54989510161&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=R16&gclid=Cj0KEQjwrsDIBRDX3JCunOrr_YYBEiQAifH1FuHK2BLmvUnaodlZCu7GtG1fMP8fM9LP40d6aovNzzAaAh3C8P8HAQ

 

Here's an example of a capture I made at a practice on one of these after I mixed it on my home DAW.

 

https://soundcloud.com/dunedindragon/gods-children-1

 

With this mixer, can you send individual tracks out to the room PA, or do you have to send all of the tracks to the PA?

[DunedinDragon]

With this mixer, can you send individual tracks out to the room PA, or do you have to send all of the tracks to the PA?

 

This isn't really meant to work that way.  It's a standalone recording interface.  You do control each channels output with the faders even if you're recording all channels, but they don't go to the speaker outputs (those are only used for playback).  You can fool it by using the headphone output however if you plug a mono 1/4" line in up to the first indent (halfway in).  That line could then be sent to a single channel on a PA and all tracks that have the faders turned up would be the ones that are heard.

[specracer986]

This isn't really meant to work that way.  It's a standalone recording interface.  You do control each channels output with the faders even if you're recording all channels, but they don't go to the speaker outputs (those are only used for playback).  You can fool it by using the headphone output however if you plug a mono 1/4" line in up to the first indent (halfway in).  That line could then be sent to a single channel on a PA and all tracks that have the faders turned up would be the ones that are heard.

So the vocalist would need two mics, one going into the Zoom and one going into a room PA? Or I guess you could take the ouput of the PA mixer and send the vocals to the Zoom recorder. How do you do it? I've been looking for a way to get a little better recording of our rehearsals, then just a small Tascam sitting in the middle of the room. I'm always trying to angle it to adjust the mix.

[DunedinDragon]

So the vocalist would need two mics, one going into the Zoom and one going into a room PA? Or I guess you could take the ouput of the PA mixer and send the vocals to the Zoom recorder. How do you do it? I've been looking for a way to get a little better recording of our rehearsals, then just a small Tascam sitting in the middle of the room. I'm always trying to angle it to adjust the mix.

 

No.  You can split the signal from a single mic if you want using an XLR split cable with one line going to the mixer and one into the recorder.  In our case all inputs went into the recorder and I simply used the headphone output and went directly into a pair of powered speakers chained together.  I turned down the faders from all the instruments and turned up the faders for the channels with the vocalists.  That worked fine.  In our case we didn't use the actual PA head, just the recorder going to the powered powered speakers for the vocalists and harmonica.