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JeffMarshMusic

CC Toggle Unreliable

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I would like to have a stomp switch that changes my amp channel (clean/drive) via MIDI.  It's ideal to have a switch which you can save to a snapshot.  Much quicker than going into command mode and sending a CC for each snapshot.  And nice to have the switch available at your feet.

 

The problem is, when changing snapshots the Helix will toggle off the switch without sending the CC data.  For example, I have a snapshot with a lead sound on the drive channel (stomp switch on and lit).  I will then change to a snapshot that is a clean sound, with the stomp saved in the off position (amp clean channel).

 

Helix will show the stomp off/dim (correct as saved) but no midi data is sent to the external switching device (RJM Switch Gizmo).  I've plugged the Helix into my computer with an app called "Midi Monitor" to verify that no midi data is sent.

 

Then... Helix will send opposite information out the MIDI port.  The On position now sends the number "0" and the off/dim position sends a value of 127.

 

This seems to be a bug, as I can verify with "MIDI Monitor" that the on/bright position will randomly swap its behavior with the off/dim position.

 

I can understand an external device getting confused, or a missed CC command making an external device end up in the wrong state.  But when the CC Command that you program in the Command Center changes its value to something else other than the number you saved, something is wrong.

 

Thanks for any comments.

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I believe you have to go into the Command Center and set the value for the CC Toggle command for each snapshot manually. Simply hitting the toggle switch itself doesn't set the value for the snapshot like it does with an effect block assigned to a footswitch.

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The parameters are already there for the different snapshots, but I did try writing them in again just incase.  No success.  But thank you.

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I just remembered something like this coming up before... I think the issue is that when you change snapshots, the Helix is looking at the saved setting for that CC Toggle in the snapshot you're coming from, and not the current state. So if you had a snapshot where you had the toggle set to on and go into stomp mode and not that footswitch so it's off, the toggle won't flip when you go into the next new snapshot. It does sound like the dim/non-dim thing is a bug, but the CC Toggle is operating as designed even though it's not optimal. In any case, it probably warrants opening up a support ticket to get in front of the right people.

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Assuming I understood your post correctly I just wanted to offer a workaround you may already be aware of and have determined not to be ideal for how you use the Helix. Instead of assigning your amp channel switches to a stomp switch (pedal mode) assign them to a MIDI Instant command. That way when you change snapshots you should properly switch to the correct amp channel and still see all of the desired effect blocks with the dim/lit states reflected properly. You can switch amp channels when you switch between snapshots this way. You just won't be switching amp channels from within a snapshot.  I think phil_m's suggestion to open up a ticket is also a good idea in the event that there is a bug here that needs to be addressed or an existing method to make things work the way you want.

 

 

Many have found this video helpful for setting up amp channel select upon snapshot switch:

 

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Sorry to warm this up, but I'm experiencing the same bug with a brand new Helix, which was updated to 2.30 when it came out of the box. I have posted the issue in the bug report thread, but I just now found this thread describing my very same problem.

 

If I understand the first post correctly, my Helix with 2.30 behaves a little different.

 

 

The problem is, when changing snapshots the Helix will toggle off the switch without sending the CC data.  For example, I have a snapshot with a lead sound on the drive channel (stomp switch on and lit).  I will then change to a snapshot that is a clean sound, with the stomp saved in the off position (amp clean channel).

 

Helix will show the stomp off/dim (correct as saved) but no midi data is sent to the external switching device (RJM Switch Gizmo).  I've plugged the Helix into my computer with an app called "Midi Monitor" to verify that no midi data is sent.

 

 

MY Helix does send MIDI data with the snapshot change, and as long as I never touch the actual CC toggle in stomp mode, everything is fine. Things get bugged if I use the CC toggle stomp switch; in your example, switching from the snapshot with the lead sound to clean works (and back), but if I manually turn off lead via the stomp switch, lead gets turned back on when you change to the clean snapshot.

 

So it seems Helix doesn't look at the actual saved state (value) of the CC toggle in the snapshot. it seems to compare the snapshots, "see" that it needs to toggle the CC from one snapshot to the next and will send the opposite value it no matter what without checking the actual state. In other words, it always inverts from one snapshot to another instead of sending at the saved value.

 

Helix really needs to send the saved value. Every time. No matter what. Everything else is dangrous and makes controlling devices like the Gizmo or, in my case, a MIDI enabled amp, unusable.

 

Just sticking to snapshots is a mediocre solution at best, because it essentially renders CC toggle stomp switches useless - you could use instant messages for that. I do have some situations where I am in one snapshot, flick (in my case) the CC toggle for the master on my amp and then switch to the next snapshot where this toggle needs to stay on (which it doesn't at the moment, it gets turned off, because it was saved in a different state between the two snapshots). The only other solution would be to "waste" another snapshot just for this one button change (which on some presets would push me to more than four, and I'm running Helix in 4 Snapshot / 4 Stomp mode...).

 

Have you found any solutions, and did you file a ticket? I'm going to do that tonight, I hope something comes out of it. I really need that feature to be able to use the Helix as full time replacement for my rack as intended.

 

Thanks,

Nils

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Sorry to warm this up, but I'm experiencing the same bug with a brand new Helix, which was updated to 2.30 when it came out of the box. I have posted the issue in the bug report thread, but I just now found this thread describing my very same problem.

 

If I understand the first post correctly, my Helix with 2.30 behaves a little different.

 

 

MY Helix does send MIDI data with the snapshot change, and as long as I never touch the actual CC toggle in stomp mode, everything is fine. Things get bugged if I use the CC toggle stomp switch; in your example, switching from the snapshot with the lead sound to clean works (and back), but if I manually turn off lead via the stomp switch, lead gets turned back on when you change to the clean snapshot.

 

So it seems Helix doesn't look at the actual saved state (value) of the CC toggle in the snapshot. it seems to compare the snapshots, "see" that it needs to toggle the CC from one snapshot to the next and will send the opposite value it no matter what without checking the actual state. In other words, it always inverts from one snapshot to another instead of sending at the saved value.

 

Helix really needs to send the saved value. Every time. No matter what. Everything else is dangrous and makes controlling devices like the Gizmo or, in my case, a MIDI enabled amp, unusable.

 

Just sticking to snapshots is a mediocre solution at best, because it essentially renders CC toggle stomp switches useless - you could use instant messages for that. I do have some situations where I am in one snapshot, flick (in my case) the CC toggle for the master on my amp and then switch to the next snapshot where this toggle needs to stay on (which it doesn't at the moment, it gets turned off, because it was saved in a different state between the two snapshots). The only other solution would be to "waste" another snapshot just for this one button change (which on some presets would push me to more than four, and I'm running Helix in 4 Snapshot / 4 Stomp mode...).

 

Have you found any solutions, and did you file a ticket? I'm going to do that tonight, I hope something comes out of it. I really need that feature to be able to use the Helix as full time replacement for my rack as intended.

 

Thanks,

Nils

 

Do you have the Snapshot Edit parameter in Global Settings>Preferences set to Recall or Discard?

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Sorry, forgot to mention. I have set it to discard.

 

I tend to modify my sound somewhat while playing, and I'd love to use the snashots in the same way as I did my last MIDI rig, the snapshots being fixed sounds for certain moments in a song where I want to avoid tap dancing, but smaller changes I like to do "on the fly".

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FIY, I filed a ticket for the issue. Problem was confirmed by the support, fix slated for next release.

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Update on the topic: Still not working in 2.50, kind of gotten worse even. Updated my support ticket, will let you know what reply I get.

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Hi,

I have installed the 2.53 update but it hasn't fixed the problem for me. Anyone else?

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