Midi Toggle A/B Path Help

[JeremiahEdward]

First off, I don't like snapshots. I don't like the idea of having to have your entire set list preplanned.. having effects trigger on/off in  perfectly choreographed sequences. That does not jive with the way I play/perform and is arduous to set up. Don't get me wrong... I DEFINITELY see the benefit of snapshots in other situations, but they are not for me.  

 

1) I want my effects to be totally independent of whether or not I'm on clean/crunch/lead tones in the heilx.

2) I'm fairly familiar with midi having used it in performance in the past. 

3) I have just a simple clean/dirty amp set up using two amps going into the same cabinet 

      In --> compressor --> overdrive --> A/B split --> Amp A    --> joined back together --> IR --> rest of effects.

                                                                                    --> Amp B

All I want to do is toggle back and forth between Path A/B. I can set a footswtich to do this, but 9 times out of 10, somehow the light indicating which state the amps are in gets swapped. I set it so that Clean amp on = light not illuminated and Dirty Amp On = Light is illuminated. Some how, despite having it set correctly at first, it always gets swapped around. I learned this the hard (and embarrassing) way at a show. 

 

Midi toggle would solve this issue. Example: CC 4 = Dim and Path A 100% .  CC5 = List and Path B 100%. Toggle them back and forth. 

 

Is this not possible???? WHY is this not possible? That would solve so many issues people have with getting this unit set up in a more traditional fashion.

 

I'm open to suggestions and at my wits end with this thing. It sounds phenomenal and has incredible potential, but just basic things are seemingly impossible.                                     

 

[littleeden]

You say you don’t like snapshots, but this seems to me the perfect solution to your problem.  Your existing routing is your preset, clean amp on/dirty amp off in snapshot one, vice versa in snapshot two, then just switch your stomps on and off as required.

[littleeden]

Then rename snapshot one ‘Clean’ and snapshot two ‘Dirty’ or whatever, and you’re never confused again.

 

Rereading your post, it seems you might have the wrong idea about snapshots - I mean, it is possible to use them only as you describe, but you don’t have to.  I use them like channel switches on an amp.  Then, like I said, you can still use your stomp foot switches independently within each snapshot.  

[JeremiahEdward]

My issue with snapshots is that it takes the impromptu nature out of a performance. Sometimes in a song I want to hit the dirty amp Channel and have delay and a specific reverb from my Ventris, other times I want no delays on the dirty amp when I trigger it and a different verb and some chorus or pitch. I would have to set up a ton of snapshots accounting for every possible situation i may encounter or musical motif I want to explore. Snapshots (for my situation) are too ridgid and would wake a silly amount of time to set up. 

 

I just want to be able to switch "channels" and trigger effects independently... :-(

[zolko60]

So, how you make it right now?
Changing amps with A/B split and tap dancing?
How A/B split is swapping for you? It never swaps for me.
I usually play on 3 amps/3 IRs presets. To change them, I would need 6 stomp switches, so 2 (HxLT) left for my stomps? No way. Snapshots give me possibility of switching with no single stomp switch devotion.
Maybe logic of snaphots needs some upgrade. I think of "snapshot safe" setting for bypass ot some other parameters. Still they are very powerfull tool.

[JeremiahEdward]

I have tried toggling between two amps with one footswitch, this works well until the bypass/active light gets swapped around. 

 

I have tried with snapshots.. A path = clean amp... B path = dirty amp. Snapshot 1 = 100% A path and Snapshot 2 = 100% dirty amp. Doesn't work with what I play. No traditional verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus end nonsense here. 

 

Easy solution for line 6:

 

MIDI Toggle A/B path.

 

I agree that snapshots are powerful... In a traditional set up. I play in a post rock band where the songs are a bit different each night. Lots of improvisation and soundscape building. So snapshots don't really work for me.

 

[zolko60]

Send me your preset. I will try to fix your swapping lights. I am curious how it can happen to you.
Stomp switches are in fact midi toggles - what additional midi toggle can resolve?
Why are you sticked to that "verse chorus bridge" pattern? When I use Helix Native, I have controller that can only toggle beetween two snapshots. This is also overkill setup.
My snapshots are "clean, crunch, metal" - first three are initial "minimal" state. I turn right "amp" on then additional stomps on. This is my workflow, everybody can invent one's own way. 

[littleeden]

On 12/11/2018 at 1:03 AM, JeremiahEdward said:

My issue with snapshots is that it takes the impromptu nature out of a performance. Sometimes in a song I want to hit the dirty amp Channel and have delay and a specific reverb from my Ventris, other times I want no delays on the dirty amp when I trigger it and a different verb and some chorus or pitch. I would have to set up a ton of snapshots accounting for every possible situation i may encounter or musical motif I want to explore. Snapshots (for my situation) are too ridgid and would wake a silly amount of time to set up. 

 

I just want to be able to switch "channels" and trigger effects independently... :-(

You can, just like I said - it's what I do using snapshots, because, like you, I don't like having to plan out my performance beforehand either.

[JeremiahEdward]

15 hours ago, littleeden said:

You can, just like I said - it's what I do using snapshots, because, like you, I don't like having to plan out my performance beforehand either.

 

But snapshots affect all the other blocks you have in your preset. I wanted them totally independent so that the snapshot only ever looks at the a/b path and not the other blocks. It had been confirmed that this is not currently possible. I sold the Helix and went another route that works better for me.

[zolko60]

Presets are totally independent. Snaphots are not, but the idea of isolating chosen DSP blocks from snapshot bypass automation is really cool.

 

[JeremiahEdward]

26 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

Presets are totally independent. Snaphots are not, but the idea of isolating chosen DSP blocks from snapshot bypass automation is really cool.

 

That would sway me back to the helix. I loved everything else about it, but it just didn't work for our kind of performance.

[littleeden]

5 hours ago, JeremiahEdward said:

 

But snapshots affect all the other blocks you have in your preset. I wanted them totally independent so that the snapshot only ever looks at the a/b path and not the other blocks. It had been confirmed that this is not currently possible. I sold the Helix and went another route that works better for me.

Right, I've obviously been missing something - so are you saying you wanted to, for example, play your clean sound, switch on (eg) the chorus, then change to the crunch sound and have the chorus stay on, as would happen with a conventional pedalboard/amp setup?

[phil_m]

I'm not sure why the OP was having trouble assigning the A/B split to a footswitch. People have been doing that ever since the Helix came out, and I've not heard of reports of problems with it. If you have those sorts of controllers set up and are using snapshots, sometimes the states can get mixed up. The other way to do this is to not mess with controlling the Split block, but rather just assign the amp blocks themselves to by bypassed by the same footswitch and have the toggled opposite each other. Or you could assign the Channel Volume parameter in the amp blocks to an expression pedal and fade between them. There's literally half a dozen ways to do this sort of thing.

[JeremiahEdward]

25 minutes ago, phil_m said:

I'm not sure why the OP was having trouble assigning the A/B split to a footswitch. People have been doing that ever since the Helix came out, and I've not heard of reports of problems with it. If you have those sorts of controllers set up and are using snapshots, sometimes the states can get mixed up. The other way to do this is to not mess with controlling the Split block, but rather just assign the amp blocks themselves to by bypassed by the same footswitch and have the toggled opposite each other. Or you could assign the Channel Volume parameter in the amp blocks to an expression pedal and fade between them. There's literally half a dozen ways to do this sort of thing.

 

You cannot assign a/b split to a footswitch. Only snapshots. On snapshots, you cannot have it affect only the split and ignore all other blocks. If assigned the amps themselves to a footswitch and toggle them, it works, until in hx edit you hover the amp that is disengaged and suddenly the light indicating which state the amp is in gets switched. Not a reliable indicator of which amp is active/inactive.

 

Lots of compromises. Not solutions. For me anyway. Like I said, everything else about the helix was great, but it just didn't work for me. 

[phil_m]

11 minutes ago, JeremiahEdward said:

You cannot assign a/b split to a footswitch.

 

You can indeed assign it to a footswitch. You can't assign the block itself to be bypassed by a footswitch, but you can assign the "Route to" parameter in the split block to be controlled by a footswitch.

11 minutes ago, JeremiahEdward said:

Lots of compromises. Not solutions. For me anyway. Like I said, everything else about the helix was great, but it just didn't work for me.  

 

It doesn't seem like you quite gave it a fair shake from my perspective, but of course, that's completely up to you...

[JeremiahEdward]

22 hours ago, phil_m said:

 

You can indeed assign it to a footswitch. You can't assign the block itself to be bypassed by a footswitch, but you can assign the "Route to" parameter in the split block to be controlled by a footswitch.

 

I am immensely interested in this. You can use a footswitch to toggle between A 100% and B 100%? If so, will the engaged/disengaged light correspond to a specific state?

 

I tried for a while to solve that problem but all signs pointed to "not possible".

[zolko60]

On 12/9/2018 at 6:46 PM, JeremiahEdward said:

All I want to do is toggle back and forth between Path A/B. I can set a footswtich to do this, but 9 times out of 10, somehow the light indicating which state the amps are in gets swapped.

This is what you claimed in your first post. Your "problem" was it does not work correctly. It does. No sign of forum users trying to solve your "problem" pointed to "not possible".

[JeremiahEdward]

No no... You misunderstood. I can use a footswitch to toggle an amp back and forth on/off. NOT a/b path toggle. My "problem" remains.

 

Let me be clear... again... It's a really great product. It just didn't work for the way we perform. Unless a member knows how to toggle 100% A to 100% using a footswitch (not snapshots).

[JeremiahEdward]

10 minutes ago, zolko60 said:

This is what you claimed in your first post. Your "problem" was it does not work correctly. It does. No sign of forum users trying to solve your "problem" pointed to "not possible".

 

[zolko60]

You are right. Now I can't understand why your "problem" remains after you sold the Helix.

[JeremiahEdward]

I have other line 6 products and i will keep an eye on helix for updates. Now knock off your attitude, please.

[phil_m]

2 hours ago, JeremiahEdward said:

 

I am immensely interested in this. You can use a footswitch to toggle between A 100% and B 100%? If so, will the engaged/disengaged light correspond to a specific state?

 

I tried for a while to solve that problem but all signs pointed to "not possible".

 

Yep... you can definitely do that. Here's proof:

 

 

With this setup, the footswitch LED is lit when at 100% B and dim when 100% A. You could reverse it if you want.