MIDI CC with Snapshots

[fenderbenderlax]

Hi All,

 

I'm trying to switch channels on my amp using the Voodoo Labs Midi amp switcher. What I would like to do is to enable snapshot changes to also switch channels on my amp. I have not been very successful at getting this done.  I have my helix set up in the stomp/snapshot mode where the FS on the top row work on stops and the FS in the bottom row are assigned to snapshots. When I assign a separate FS in the top row to a CC toggle, channel switching works perfectly. However, when do the exact same assignment in the bottom row switching no longer works. Any thoughts on how this can be achieved? 

 

Thanks

[rd2rk]

When you load a Snapshot it sends any commands assigned to the "Instant Commands". It does not send commands assigned to Stomps.

To do what you're trying to do, assign the Channel Switching commands to "Instant Commands" (lightning bolts).

[fenderbenderlax]

3 minutes ago, rd2rk said:

When you load a Snapshot it sends any commands assigned to the "Instant Commands". It does not send commands assigned to Stomps.

To do what you're trying to do, assign the Channel Switching commands to "Instant Commands" (lightning bolts).

 

I did try that as well and it did not seem to work...is there a way to assign the lightning bolts to specific snapshots?? I wonder if I'm missing something there...

[rd2rk]

5 minutes ago, fenderbenderlax said:

 

I did try that as well and it did not seem to work...is there a way to assign the lightning bolts to specific snapshots?? I wonder if I'm missing something there...

 

The Snapshot you're in when you assign the Instant Command is the Snapshot that the Instant command is assigned to.

Check your Global settings. If you have Preferences, Snapshot Edits set to Recall, then you can set all the Snapshots at once and just SAVE the Preset once when you're done. If it's set to Discard then you'll lose the settings when you change Snapshots unless you SAVE each Snapshot before changing to another.

Keep in mind that the IC that loads when the Preset is selected will be the one assigned to the Snapshot that was active the last time the Preset was SAVEd.

Also, when a Snapshot is selected it sends the assigned ICs ONCE. It won't send those ICs again until you load a Snapshot the sends a different VALUE on the assigned PC/CC.

 

Example:

 

SS1 sends CC# 1 Value 10. SS2 sends the same. The message will only be sent once, not every time you toggle between Snapshots.

SS1 sends CC#1 Value 10, SS2 sends CC#1 Value 20. Toggling between Snapshots will send Value 10, then 20, then 10 again.

 

Lastly (and most annoyingly), As soon as you assign a message type to ANY Snapshot IC, Helix automatically assigns that message type with it's default Values to ALL Snapshots in that Preset on that IC. You then need to set a Value for ALL Snapshots in that Preset on that IC, or the default will be sent.

 

Example:

 

SS3 IC1 is assigned "MIDI CC". The default value is CC#0/Value 0. ALL Snapshots in that Preset now have IC1 assigned to CC#0 Value 0.

If you change the CC# and Value of IC1 in SS3 to 15/27, IC1 in SS3 will have those settings, but all the other Snapshots will still show IC1 as 0/0.

So, if 15/27 changes the amp channel to Channel 3, and 0/0 changes it to Channel 1, all Snapshots except SS3 will switch to Channel 1.

 

Are we having fun yet?

[fenderbenderlax]

1 hour ago, rd2rk said:

 

The Snapshot you're in when you assign the Instant Command is the Snapshot that the Instant command is assigned to.

Check your Global settings. If you have Preferences, Snapshot Edits set to Recall, then you can set all the Snapshots at once and just SAVE the Preset once when you're done. If it's set to Discard then you'll lose the settings when you change Snapshots unless you SAVE each Snapshot before changing to another.

Keep in mind that the IC that loads when the Preset is selected will be the one assigned to the Snapshot that was active the last time the Preset was SAVEd.

Also, when a Snapshot is selected it sends the assigned ICs ONCE. It won't send those ICs again until you load a Snapshot the sends a different VALUE on the assigned PC/CC.

 

Example:

 

SS1 sends CC# 1 Value 10. SS2 sends the same. The message will only be sent once, not every time you toggle between Snapshots.

SS1 sends CC#1 Value 10, SS2 sends CC#1 Value 20. Toggling between Snapshots will send Value 10, then 20, then 10 again.

 

Lastly (and most annoyingly), As soon as you assign a message type to ANY Snapshot IC, Helix automatically assigns that message type with it's default Values to ALL Snapshots in that Preset on that IC. You then need to set a Value for ALL Snapshots in that Preset on that IC, or the default will be sent.

 

Example:

 

SS3 IC1 is assigned "MIDI CC". The default value is CC#0/Value 0. ALL Snapshots in that Preset now have IC1 assigned to CC#0 Value 0.

If you change the CC# and Value of IC1 in SS3 to 15/27, IC1 in SS3 will have those settings, but all the other Snapshots will still show IC1 as 0/0.

So, if 15/27 changes the amp channel to Channel 3, and 0/0 changes it to Channel 1, all Snapshots except SS3 will switch to Channel 1.

 

Are we having fun yet?

 

wow....thanks for the detailed walk through...it is super helpful...I will try it out either later today or tomorrow....seems like this is going to be painful to go through our 40 song setlist...wonder if there is an easier approach...not to mention, I'm currently only using the the midi out to control the amp switcher...but plan to take the midi out of the switcher into the midi in for the DigiTech Whammy DT and assign both Whammy and Pitch drop settings for presets as well...the fun is just starting...

[nbiglin]

On 9/10/2019 at 2:09 PM, rd2rk said:

 

Also, when a Snapshot is selected it sends the assigned ICs ONCE. It won't send those ICs again until you load a Snapshot the sends a different VALUE on the assigned PC/CC.

 

Example:

 

SS1 sends CC# 1 Value 10. SS2 sends the same. The message will only be sent once, not every time you toggle between Snapshots.

SS1 sends CC#1 Value 10, SS2 sends CC#1 Value 20. Toggling between Snapshots will send Value 10, then 20, then 10 again.

 

Reviving this because it's related to an issue I'm dealing with at the moment. Why do snapshots only send the CC value once, and is there a way to change this behavior? Can I reload the PC message instead? Here's what I'm trying to accomplish:

 

My Helix and HX Effects are both in Snapshot mode, and I'm trying to make it so that every time I switch a snapshot on the Helix, it reverts the HX effects back to it's snapshot 1, which is essentially a bypassed state. So, I can be in a clean snapshot on the Helix with the HXE basically bypassed, use the octaver snapshot on the HXE, and then when I go to the crunch snapshot on the Helix, the HXE goes back to the bypassed snapshot.

[DunedinDragon]

I think you're beginning to run into the same kind of limitations that made me move from using the Helix as a MIDI controller to a separate dedicated MIDI controller which is a Morningstar MC8.  Although the Helix works fine in relatively simple situations, once you begin trying to control multiple MIDI enabled units simultaneously in more complex ways, the convoluted mechanics of the Helix MIDI implementation in Snapshots and the inability to simply fire off multiple MIDI actions from a single foot press lead me to the MC8 which has solved everything in a much more straightforward manner.  The added benefit is I no longer worry about the footswitches on the Helix wearing down and becoming non responsive since I rarely use them.

[rd2rk]

On 10/8/2022 at 7:01 AM, nbiglin said:

Reviving this because it's related to an issue I'm dealing with at the moment. Why do snapshots only send the CC value once, and is there a way to change this behavior? Can I reload the PC message instead? Here's what I'm trying to accomplish:

 

My Helix and HX Effects are both in Snapshot mode, and I'm trying to make it so that every time I switch a snapshot on the Helix, it reverts the HX effects back to it's snapshot 1, which is essentially a bypassed state. So, I can be in a clean snapshot on the Helix with the HXE basically bypassed, use the octaver snapshot on the HXE, and then when I go to the crunch snapshot on the Helix, the HXE goes back to the bypassed snapshot.

 

Navigating the convolutions of CommandCenter, I've come up with the attached solution. It's rather expensive in terms of resources used - 4 Snapshots and 4 ICs - but it allows you to be in either clean or crunch mode and toggle the HXFX snapshot so that the Octaver (or whatever) is ON or OFF in either mode. By studying the CommandCenter IC settings the basic principles should become apparent. You MIGHT be able to come up with a more efficient solution for your specific needs once the principles are understood. For instance, I used a separate Snapshot to toggle the HXFX Snapshots depending upon the Helix Mode (Clean/Crunch) because I tied the DRIVE parameter of the amp to Snapshots. Using OD/Distortion FX with simple Bypass MIGHT allow you to simplify it, but I opted for simplicity and flexibility as I'm not privvy to your specific needs and the solution could vary with different preset configurations. As @DunedinDragonsaid, the more complex your needs are, the more likely it is that you'll need a more advance MIDI Controller. Understanding the PRINCIPLES is what matters with Helix.

 

HXFX Snapshot 1 is FX OFF, Snapshot 2 is FX ON.

 

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you employ a MIDI MONITOR to observe EXACTLY what is happening.

 

Global Settings:

MIDI - MIDI PC SEND = OFF

Preferences - Snapshot Reselect = RELOAD

 

I did this using Native in place of an HXFX but it should work fine.

nbiglin.hlx

[RifferYVR]

On 9/10/2019 at 11:09 AM, rd2rk said:

 

The Snapshot you're in when you assign the Instant Command is the Snapshot that the Instant command is assigned to.

Check your Global settings. If you have Preferences, Snapshot Edits set to Recall, then you can set all the Snapshots at once and just SAVE the Preset once when you're done. If it's set to Discard then you'll lose the settings when you change Snapshots unless you SAVE each Snapshot before changing to another.

Keep in mind that the IC that loads when the Preset is selected will be the one assigned to the Snapshot that was active the last time the Preset was SAVEd.

Also, when a Snapshot is selected it sends the assigned ICs ONCE. It won't send those ICs again until you load a Snapshot the sends a different VALUE on the assigned PC/CC.

 

Example:

 

SS1 sends CC# 1 Value 10. SS2 sends the same. The message will only be sent once, not every time you toggle between Snapshots.

SS1 sends CC#1 Value 10, SS2 sends CC#1 Value 20. Toggling between Snapshots will send Value 10, then 20, then 10 again.

 

Lastly (and most annoyingly), As soon as you assign a message type to ANY Snapshot IC, Helix automatically assigns that message type with it's default Values to ALL Snapshots in that Preset on that IC. You then need to set a Value for ALL Snapshots in that Preset on that IC, or the default will be sent.

 

Example:

 

SS3 IC1 is assigned "MIDI CC". The default value is CC#0/Value 0. ALL Snapshots in that Preset now have IC1 assigned to CC#0 Value 0.

If you change the CC# and Value of IC1 in SS3 to 15/27, IC1 in SS3 will have those settings, but all the other Snapshots will still show IC1 as 0/0.

So, if 15/27 changes the amp channel to Channel 3, and 0/0 changes it to Channel 1, all Snapshots except SS3 will switch to Channel 1.

 

Are we having fun yet?

Thanks so much for sharing this! I was losing my mind trying to figure out what was happening with the ICs in my Snapshots. What a bizarre and annoyingly eccentric way to ‘manage’ how CCs are applied within Snapshots - perhaps there’s some other underlying technical constraint forcing the issue. Regardless, my HX Effects rig is finally doing what I want with my Mesa Boogie TC-100!

[rd2rk]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:09 PM, RifferYVR said:

Thanks so much for sharing this! I was losing my mind trying to figure out what was happening with the ICs in my Snapshots. What a bizarre and annoyingly eccentric way to ‘manage’ how CCs are applied within Snapshots - perhaps there’s some other underlying technical constraint forcing the issue. Regardless, my HX Effects rig is finally doing what I want with my Mesa Boogie TC-100!

 

I forget how it used to be, but they changed it to make it easier and more flexible.

I use CommandCenter a LOT, mostly for controlling DAWs and plugins, but also for controlling my Catalyst amp.

Once you've learned the (slightly convoluted) rules, it makes total sense to do it this way.

My only wish is that, instead of every other SS using a set of defaults for that command type, even if the command type has to remain the same, the default should be DO NOTHING!

 

[pbatts]

Hey all, looking for some help with "Snapshot CC Send" on an HX Stomp updated to 3.7.0.

 

I have an empty preset with all MIDI Globals turned off, except USB MIDI is on so I can monitor messages being sent.

 

I have one Instant Command configured to send a different CC Value to an outside channel for each Snapshot.

 

The messages are being sent, even with Snapshot CC Send turned off.

 

Is this expected behavior? I expected no messages to be sent.

 

 

Thanks

[pbatts]

I have identified the root of my troubles. Possibly a bug.

 

Snapshot CC Send does not work if all values in all snapshots are the same. Three different values, one for each snapshot and it works perfectly.

[rd2rk]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:28 AM, pbatts said:

Hey all, looking for some help with "Snapshot CC Send" on an HX Stomp updated to 3.7.0.

 

I have an empty preset with all MIDI Globals turned off, except USB MIDI is on so I can monitor messages being sent.

 

I have one Instant Command configured to send a different CC Value to an outside channel for each Snapshot.

 

The messages are being sent, even with Snapshot CC Send turned off.

 

Is this expected behavior? I expected no messages to be sent.

 

 

Thanks

 

On 11/27/2023 at 11:35 AM, pbatts said:

I have identified the root of my troubles. Possibly a bug.

 

Snapshot CC Send does not work if all values in all snapshots are the same. Three different values, one for each snapshot and it works perfectly.

 

"Snapshot CC Send" enables/disables automatically sending CC#69 when a snapshot is selected, not CCs assigned to ICs or Switches.

You only need that enabled if you're controlling a second Helix or recording MIDI to automate a performance.

It works the same way as "MIDI PC Send", which enables/disables sending the default PC# but does not affect PC#s assigned to ICs or Switches.

 

The reason it seems like it doesn't work when all ICs send the same command (apart from the above explanation) but appears to work when the ICs send different commands is because once a command is sent on an IC, it won't be sent again until a different command is sent.

[pbatts]

Thanks for your reply.

 

On 11/27/2023 at 2:24 PM, rd2rk said:

"Snapshot CC Send" enables/disables automatically sending CC#69 when a snapshot is selected, not CCs assigned to ICs or Switches.

 

Snapshot CC Send does not enable automatically, but the Stomp does always send itself a #69, 0, 1 or 2 for the corresponding Snapshot change.

 

Snapshot CC Send is enabled in Menu > Global Settings > MIDI/Tempo > Snapshot CC Send > ON/OFF

 

Snapshot CC Send, if enabled, allows you to send an Instant Command [CC message(s)], anywhere, upon entering that Snapshot. This is great, as you pointed out, for controlling other MIDI capable devices.

 

On 11/27/2023 at 2:24 PM, rd2rk said:

The reason it seems like it doesn't work when all ICs send the same command (apart from the above explanation) but appears to work when the ICs send different commands is because once a command is sent on an IC, it won't be sent again until a different command is sent.

 

Ahh, yes. I see that now.

 

Thanks again.

 

[rd2rk]

On 11/28/2023 at 11:21 AM, pbatts said:

Snapshot CC Send does not enable automatically, but the Stomp does always send itself a #69, 0, 1 or 2 for the corresponding Snapshot change.

 

When I said that it enables automatically sending i did not mean that it enables automatically, I meant that it enables the snapshots to automatically (Globally, and by default) to send CC#69 on snapshot selection.

 

On 11/28/2023 at 11:21 AM, pbatts said:

Snapshot CC Send, if enabled, allows you to send an Instant Command [CC message(s)], anywhere, upon entering that Snapshot.

 

No. "Snapshot CC Send" ONLY enables/disables sending of CC#69. Sending anything via IC is ALWAYS enabled. "Snapshot CC Send" has NO effect on the IC functions. 

[pbatts]

On 11/28/2023 at 1:33 PM, rd2rk said:

No. "Snapshot CC Send" ONLY enables/disables sending of CC#69. Sending anything via IC is ALWAYS enabled. "Snapshot CC Send" has NO effect on the IC functions. 

 

Hopefully, we can agree to disagree. That is not how it works.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

[rd2rk]

We cannot agree to disagree on this subject because it works the way it works and that is easy enough to prove.

 

Set your Globals as follows:

 

Preferences:

SS Edits = RECALL

SS Reselect = RELOAD

 

MIDI:

SS CC Send = ON

 

On a New Preset set IC1 on SS1 to send a CC# other than 0.

 

I assume that you are using a MIDI Monitor to track what the Helix is sending.

 

Select SS1. What's sent is CC#69 with a Value of 0 and whatever you set on IC1.

Reselect SS1. What's sent is ONLY CC#69 with a Value of 0.

Select SS2. What's sent is CC#69 with a Value of 1 and CC#0 Value 0.

Reselect SS1.What's sent is CC#69 with a Value of 0 and whatever you set on IC1.

 

Now go back to Global>MIDI and disable "Snapshot CC Send" (OFF).

 

Repeat the above sequence.

Everything related to IC messages remains the same. CC#69 is no longer sent.

 

"Snapshot CC Send" does NOT affect IC function, it ONLY enables/disables sending of CC#69 on SS select.

 

I am not relating this from memory. I followed the procedure I described so that I would be certain that this test will prove what I'm saying.

I've been using CommandCenter since the day it was released (LONG ago).

You are not the first to be confused by this. I may have been the first :-P

If you still don't believe it, contact support and ask them.

 

 

[Freeplugs]

Hello,

I'm using an HX STOMP which is connected to a Boss dble switch FS-7 into EXP1/2 TRS Jack

This FS-7 manage my Presets up and down, no problem.

Otherwise , I would use my IRIG BLUEBOARD in A mode ( with BLUEBOARD App on IPAD ) for switching each of my 3 Snapshots via Midi wireless Yamaha MD-BT01

 

Scott UHL shows that in his YT Video:

 

For the moment it switches the Presets but not the Snapshots.

I 've searched for hours to change it and find the solution that fits but unfortunately I can't understand what to set.

Anyone of you could explain me how to do ?

I precise I don't want to use The HX STOMP MIDI CONTROLLER sold by Ed Saxman ( 20$ plus Midi Designer Pro...)

[rd2rk]

AFAICT, you can set the BlueBoard to control the footswitches with CC#s 49, 50 and 51, but the only VALUES it can send are 0 and 127.

In the video, he is using the HXS Footswitch CCs (49,50,51) but he is already in SNAPSHOT MODE.

In order to select Snapshots without already being in SS MODE you need to be able to send CC#69 with VALUES - 0 (SS1);1 (SS2);2 (SS3).

In order to switch MODES using MIDI you need to be able to send CC#71 with values of 0-5.

 

There are other relatively inexpensive wireless controllers which can send customizable values such as the Hotone Ampero Control.

[pbatts]

On 11/28/2023 at 2:40 PM, rd2rk said:

We cannot agree to disagree on this subject because it works the way it works and that is easy enough to prove.

 

Set your Globals as follows:

 

Preferences:

SS Edits = RECALL

SS Reselect = RELOAD

 

MIDI:

SS CC Send = ON

 

On a New Preset set IC1 on SS1 to send a CC# other than 0.

 

I assume that you are using a MIDI Monitor to track what the Helix is sending.

 

Select SS1. What's sent is CC#69 with a Value of 0 and whatever you set on IC1.

Reselect SS1. What's sent is ONLY CC#69 with a Value of 0.

Select SS2. What's sent is CC#69 with a Value of 1 and CC#0 Value 0.

Reselect SS1.What's sent is CC#69 with a Value of 0 and whatever you set on IC1.

 

Now go back to Global>MIDI and disable "Snapshot CC Send" (OFF).

 

Repeat the above sequence.

Everything related to IC messages remains the same. CC#69 is no longer sent.

 

"Snapshot CC Send" does NOT affect IC function, it ONLY enables/disables sending of CC#69 on SS select.

 

I am not relating this from memory. I followed the procedure I described so that I would be certain that this test will prove what I'm saying.

I've been using CommandCenter since the day it was released (LONG ago).

You are not the first to be confused by this. I may have been the first :-P

If you still don't believe it, contact support and ask them.

 

 

 

I stand corrected. The #69 messages do not get sent with Snapshot CC Send disabled. All other messages are sent as expected.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Freeplugs]

Many Thanx rd2rk for answering me .

Ampero appear to be a good 2nd choice too but I've already this IRig BlueBoard, so... ( and to be honnest, I like the rubber contact )

So now, I've juste configured my BlueBoard on 49/50/51 and even the 4th button D with CC#68 for Tuner function and it all work fine ( I'm always in Snapshot mode 'cause my presets are increment/decrement by my BOSS FS-7 in EXP 1/2 TRS Jack )

Many many thanks to you , you save my life