Hx stomp. 4 cable. To tube amp with no direct output

[Pacohelix]

So all my tube amps do not have a direct output or anything to send to the pa. I would like to use my hx stomp in 4 cable method with these amps.  But how can I then run to the pa 

[Schmalle]

Best sound: DI box that transforms the speaker signal from the power amp into a line level signal  =>  2nd return of the stomp => IR block. This gives you the full amp sound.

But that means that you have only 3 blocks left when you include the FX loop block for 4CM (now 6CM).

There will be two additional blocks available with firmware 3 though there is no announced release date for that yet.

[Pacohelix]

so.. i have a di box but its only 1 in and 1 out.  can i make a little box with one input and 2 outputs using old input jacks and guitar wiring?

 

[Schmalle]

NOOO! Speaker out is high voltage. Don't fiddle with this unless you absolutely know what you are doing.

Your DI needs to be prepared for that power. Not all DI boxes can handle these amounts of power. Make shure your device is prepared for this.

[Pacohelix]

Hey your either really confused or I am.  I could spilt the signal before it comes back to the power amp is what I meant.  I don’t know of any di boxes that take a speaker load.  Why can’t I just use the headphone output on the stomp and send that to mixing board 

[Schmalle]

1 hour ago, Pacohelix said:

Hey your either really confused or I am.  I could spilt the signal before it comes back to the power amp is what I meant.  I don’t know of any di boxes that take a speaker load.  Why can’t I just use the headphone output on the stomp and send that to mixing board 

The power amp contributes a considerable part to the amp sound. It interacts with the preamp and the speaker. Also presence / depth / resonance are situated there. Doesn't mean that it will sound bad after the preamp, but almost certainly different.

 

By all means, experiment. Since you probably use the left out, you mix an IR only to the right out by putting it on path B as the last block and then using the mixer to pan the unIR'ed signal left and the IR'ed right.

 

Those speaker signal ready DI boxes don't make a speaker obsolete. It's still needed. I personally own the BluGuitar Blubox which can be put between speaker out and speaker. It has inbuilt IRs that are VERY good, but it's not cheap. Others without IR capabilities are, but I didn't use them so I won't comment on them.

[Pacohelix]

when you run the 4cm you eliminate the preamp onboard the amp.  I am using my amps just for the power amp. i disagree with you on the power amp changing the tone.  ive played the same preamps through different tube power amps and there is almost notice.   im not asking for a amp theory here.  I was just looking for more advance signal routing that hopefully wouldnt cost much.  I know the headphone will work in a pinch.  I know the other output will work as well.  I liked your idea of the blubox.  but im not buying a 300 load box.   i cant use the left unIR because thats going back to the amp.  

[phil_m]

The 4CM is primarily an effects-only sort of connection. Although, you can also use the Stomp to replace your amp’s preamp as well. But generally, people use it because they want to stay within the traditional amp paradigm. So most of the time you’d just end up micing your amp. There are ways to send a direct signal. It’s easy with the full blown Helix, but not so much with the Stomp. So I’d say just make it easy on yourself - mic your amp.

[zappazapper]

52 minutes ago, Pacohelix said:

when you run the 4cm you eliminate the preamp onboard the amp.    

 

Sorry, that's not 4CM. 4CM puts the preamp of the amp in the effects loop of the multi-fx.

[Schmalle]

7 hours ago, Pacohelix said:

when you run the 4cm you eliminate the preamp onboard the amp.

Wrong. Research 4CM.

7 hours ago, Pacohelix said:

 i disagree with you on the power amp changing the tone.

You may, but that doen't change the FACT that it does. You can find out easily: compare HX's amp models vs their preamp counterparts.

7 hours ago, Pacohelix said:

ive played the same preamps through different tube power amps and there is almost notice.

Comparing different power amps is not comparing power amp to no power amp.

7 hours ago, Pacohelix said:

I was just looking for more advance signal routing that hopefully wouldn't cost much.  I know the headphone will work in a pinch.  I know the other output will work as well.  I liked your idea of the blubox.  but im not buying a 300 load box.

.Research and you'll find MUCH cheaper solutions. The BluBox is NOT a load box.

7 hours ago, Pacohelix said:

 i cant use the left unIR because thats going back to the amp.  

My suggestion was 4CM with left out to power amp, right out to FOH.