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[HelixRackMan]

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[codamedia]

On 10/23/2020 at 9:26 PM, gsmanon said:

I'd like to do some tone sculpting in preparation for a project where I need to record some doubled tracked hard-panned rhythm guitars.

 

I read your post several times.... I think you are over thinking this. 

If you are double tracking hard panned rhythm guitars, just record and process each part separately and hard pan them! That's how it would be done in a real studio! 

 

There is no reason to try doing it all within a single Helix Preset or Native instance. It's far easier to have two MONO tracks in Studio One and process each one with a separate instance of Native. 

 

On 10/23/2020 at 9:26 PM, gsmanon said:

And if I do it with two separate instances of helix on each track, again I don't seem to be able to control the parameters of both simultaneously.

 

IMO.... when recording this is a non issue. Taking the time to process each track on it's own will always produce the best results. 

 

[datacommando]

13 minutes ago, gsmanon said:

I'm not talking about recording double tracked guitars simultaneously, I'm talking about deciding what tone to use for my double tracked guitars, and the processed I'd like to deploy to help make that decision is to record two DI guitars, pan them hard left and right, and then reamp them both simultanously through the same helix patch, which I can then edit while listening to get the perfect recording tone.

Hi,

 

I have to agree with “codamedia” in the post above.  I also read your post several times - you possibly are overthinking this.
 

Once you have captured the DI (Direct Injected) clean guitar by recording it into your DAW, then processing the signal should not be as complex as you want to make it. Once you have decided on the tone you want to achieve, then simply have an instance of  HX Native, loaded with the same preset, as an insert on each track and then playback, panned hard left and right, and adjust to taste.

 

You can playback the dry guitar through as many variations of presets as you want, the dry signal is always there, your choice of preset only happens when you hit “record” to bounce to another take. Audition as many set ups as you want and change as much as you want.  Treat it like a huge sampler, or looper, nothing is permanent until you print it to disc and even then you can change things.You could also save the dry audio and re-amp it through a completely different rig in a months time, if you like. Or maybe, another couple of years down the line there could be yet more amps and FX added to Helix and HX Native, then it could be a totally new experience.

 

Sorry if I am missing something, but I hope this helps/makes sense.

[datacommando]

6 hours ago, gsmanon said:

I think you misunderstand me.

 

Hi,

 

You are quite correct, I really can’t understand what you are trying to achieve with this, because having re-read your OP, I think you have already answered your own question.

 

On 10/24/2020 at 3:26 AM, gsmanon said:

 

So far I tried reamping via usb with the helix, but any stereo input to the Helix gets summed to mono as soon it hits the amp block

 

This is the point my confusion - if you have recorded dry guitar signals how/why is it a stereo input to the Helix. There are some exceptions but usually guitars are mono instruments until post amp stereo FX are added.

 

Dazed and confused (once more).

[codamedia]

7 hours ago, gsmanon said:

Forget my intentions - I want to hear two guitars running through separate instances of the same patch, and be able to change both of those patches simultaneously.

 

I will respectfully "forget your intentions" and just answer your question. 

 

No.... it is the simultaneously part that makes it fall apart.  Two guitar parts through separate instances will need to be controlled separately. Even if you run them through a single instance of Native (or the Helix) on separate paths, two amps are two amps. 

 

It appears the biggest hurdle you face is the amps because they have no "stereo version". Set your Helix up with all stereo effects, create a parallel path for the 2nd amp (amp 1 on the upper path, amp 2 on the lower path) and make sure the split & merge are panned appropriately. The effects will be simultaneous, but the amps will need to be controlled separately.

 

If I can make just one suggestion....

 

When building stereo guitar tones, guitar should be treated as MONO IN > STEREO OUT, not STEREO IN > STEREO OUT

There are exceptions to this... but normally that is simply how guitars work. 

[zappazapper]

The best option might be to use Helix Native, and use your DAW to link the controls on two amp blocks. 

[zappazapper]

I'm sure you could do it with the hardware unit and MIDI, but it just seems simpler to do in a DAW. I use Reaper and Reaper has a thing called Parameter Manipulation, which is very easy to use.  Here's a video that doesn't really have anything to do with reamping guitars but shows how to link the parameters of two instances of the same plugin, and I'm sure you could use the basic concept to apply that to two blocks in the same instance. Not sure if you're using Reaper but I'm sure your DAW has similar capabilities, although like most things compared to Reaper, it might not be as simple and straight forward.

 

 

[codamedia]

2 hours ago, gsmanon said:

I am building a mono guitar tone that translates well when double tracked and panned, and therefore would like to monitor them double tracked and panned while sculpting with a single interface for the mono patch that both tracks are running through.

 

OK... this is the "intent" I've been wanting to see in a clearly described manner. I now understand what you are trying to accomplish! Thanks for persevering in getting your point across.  

 

1 hour ago, gsmanon said:

I'm using PreSonus Studio One, which has ControlLink, but I'm having a hard time getting the same knob to control multiple plugins simultaneously.

 

This was a great suggestion from @zappazapper, but what you are noticing could be a problem. I can't open my DAW (Studio One) at this time to see if there are any workarounds, but maybe take a look at Macro's and in particular the Channel Macros in conjunction with Control Link. 

 

I do believe the answer with lay in Control Link (maybe with help from macros). I'd suggest you check out the Studio One forums and see if there are solutions for controlling two of the same plugin (on different channels) with a single control. If there is a solution it can be applied to Helix Native. 

[zappazapper]

What you're trying to do is a very specific and not very common thing, therefore you shouldn't expect it to be a simple thing at all to set up, nor should you expect people on this forum to understand what you're trying to do and why. Personally I agree that it's probably not the best solution to your problem, but you've already decided that that's how you want to deal with it so I'll do my best to help you, but as someone who has over 20 years experience in studios, I know that no attempt to get a "final" sound is worth the effort before attempting a final mix. Chances are you're going to end up applying some kind of EQ to your guitar tracks in final mix stage anyway, no matter what you do at this point, and that's mostly because whatever compression and limiting you use on the master bus or any groups your guitars are in is invariably going to affect frequency response. It's just an inescapable fact of life that mixing is "itinerant", which means jumping from place to place. You'll never get a final guitar sound before you do the final mix EVER, and the best approach is always to get the best sound you can NOW, and make incremental adjustments as you get further down the line to deal with how the interaction with other elements change that sound. BUT... if you want to try and do what you want to try and do, yes, you can do it with the plugin and whatever your DAW calls Parameter Manipulation.