HELP Please

[david_blake65]

Hey everyone, brand new Helix/Powercab 112 user and I'm having some serious issues on how to use. I'm pretty ignorant in general and all the resources are a bit overwhelming and feel like they're starting off from a place above my understanding and I really need some square 1 help. I have no idea how to get the most basic decent sounds out of my helix and powercab. I've set my global settings to line, big knob all the way up, and no matter how much tweaking I do the tones are at best comparable to that 15.00 iRig amp app on the phone that came out like 7 years ago. I'm positive it's a user error as I see people getting great sounds out of it, but I've tried everything I could think of. It's like the most heartbreaking thing in the world to mess around with my $2000ish helix/powercab for HOURS just to give up and plug into my line 6 spider 3. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, again I know it's on me, the user, but holy crap am I lost. 

[OmniFace]

Tone is VERY subjective.  What sort of tone would you like to get closer to?

 

Here's some basic advice

1. Make sure the guitar strings are fresh. 
   1. Dead strings won't produce a nice tone to work with.
   2. Pickup height will impact your tone a bit as well.
2. Start with an empty patch in Helix.
3. Add an Amp sim with no cabinet.
   1. The Powercab has speaker models already, and you don't want to use a cab sim with the Powercab speaker models.  It will probably sound muddy and muffled.
   2. The PC also has a Flat mode made for when you want to use the Helix cabs, but I'm guessing that's not what you're interested in.
4. Set the Drive where you like, but possibly dial it back slightly. 
   1. The Drive knob is preamp gain which is "tighter" sounding.  Most metal tones come from preamp gain.
   2. The Master volume knob will provide poweramp gain, which is "looser" sounding and feeling.  Non-metal tones probably use this more.
      1. When playing by yourself you'll want the gain to be higher than it probably should be. 
      2. If you're playing with other people or tracks, you'll want to turn the gain back a bit so you keep some articulation.
6. Adjust the EQ as you want, starting with all knobs at center/12 o'clock
   1. When playing at bedroom volumes you'll need to have the bass and treble higher. 
   2. When playing at volume with a band you'll need to turn the bass and treble down a bit. 
   3. You'll probably want more Mids than you think if you're a newer player.
   4. You might do this with the Helix Global EQ instead so that you can easily turn on/off the bass/treble boost.
      1. Look at Fletcher-Munson curves for more info
7. Turn the Helix output up so that you're getting a yellow signal LED but not the red clipping.  According to the PC manual, this is the ideal level for realistic speaker modeling. 
   1. Turn up the amp sim output if you're only getting green on the LED and not any yellow.
   2. You may need to turn up the volume by adding the LA2A compressor after the amp.
8. Turn up the PC to a desired volume.

If you like metal, you may wish to put a Tube Screamer (Scream 808) or Horizon Drive (Misha's pedal) in front of the Amp sim.  Turn the Gain all the way down.  The idea is to use the pedal to push the preamp gain a little bit and roll off some of the lows that get muddy.  You can then turn up the bass on the Amp after.  Sending bass into the Amp's distortion will cause it to distort the low end first, making it sound muddy.  Sending in less low end into the amp first will let you distort the mids and highs better.  Then turn up the bass on the amp to regain some tighter oomph.

If you like non-metal tones, the same idea applies with the other distortion pedals.  Keep the gain lower and push the front of the amp a little to get more Drive from the amp.  You can drive more preamp gain or master volume gain this way.

[amsdenj]

Very nice advice from OmniFace. Basically start simple and with amp/cabinet combinations you are familiar with, and then start adding pedals and other effects. Get your clean tone on the neck pickup of your guitar first, then tailor from there for other pickup settings. 

 

Regarding preamp (Drive) vs. power amp (Master) distortion, low Drive, high Master will emphasize power amp distortion which is typically symmetric, has mostly odd order harmonics, and exhibits sag and bias excursion to provide a kind of compression that effects the amp's feel. This is what OmniFace refers to a a looser more dynamic sound. 

 

High Drive low Master will emphasize preamp distortion which is typically asymmetric (because of the difference between preamp tube cutoff and saturation when run class A), has a combination of even and odd order harmonics which sound a bit more complex, but has no sag, bias excursion, or intermodulation distortion caused by hum and ripple settings. This makes the preamp distortion sound tighter and responds quicker to fast playing with a lot of low end content. 

 

Although there are no rules, an IR or Cab model in Helix into a Speaker or IR in Powercab is likely to sound pretty muddy and not have a lot of high end. Similarly an acoustic guitar into a guitar speaker IR or Cab model in either Helix or Powercab is likely to be pretty muddy and lack high end. Use Powercab in FRFR mode for this. I have however found that guitar speaker and cab IRs do warm up a mandolin with a piezo pickup in a kind of nice way.

 

[david_blake65]

Thanks for the advice, but it didn’t work. Cab block, no cab block, xlr cord, 1/4”, talked to sweetwater in house tech support. My determination is that, at least for what I’m looking for, the helix is garbage. Back to Engl and Fender for me.

[Wondo100]

Hey David,

 

I have been down that road before. It is easy to give up on the Helix and then especially when adding the Powercab. It is hard to accept sometimes that because the Helix covers SO much ground, that plugging in and landing on the tone you like is not so easy. It is not always plug and play. First thing to do is determine what you want the Helix and Powercab for. If you are getting it to replace your tube rig and make things easier, in the long run that is possible, but you will not land there right away. With a regular amp, you just plug in and then turn some knobs. The Helix is a professional piece of gear suited for studio and live playing. It is a big investment in time to get things right, but well worth it in the end. To say the Helix is garbage is just not fair. It is just something that takes time to learn. If you have the Engl stereo power amp, try plugging the Helix in to that with no cabs and into a regular speaker cabinet. That sounds awesome. Adding Powercab is another learning curve. Gets good results, but takes time. Garbage they are not.

 

I own the Helix and have had the PC 112 and 212. For me, running the Helix in 7CM with two Hughes and Kettner Grandmeisters sounds the best for what I want from a live rig, recording is Helix all the way. With my live rig it has taken quite sometime to even dial that in because with the Helix there are so many ways to hook things up and how it interacts with the amp takes some work, but that would be true with any multi effects. I have dialed in some great tones now, and I know the Helix is not garbage.  

[eyalhatuely]

What learning curve is there, on the powercab (standard, not plus)?! use flat mode with presets that uses cabs/IRs, all other speaker modes don't use cabs/IRs.

the flat mode sounds muddy and distorted (with helix preset with cab/IRs) = not flat at all, as if I drive the helix through a smartphone speaker or as if the PC is still inside its' carton box.