Which Helix cab sims match the 12 PC+ speaker models?

[Hey_Joe]

I just got my Powercab 112 Plus a month ago. Totally digging it!

I haven't seen a thread on LINE6 Helix, Powercab forums or over on TGP to answer my question.

Got a Princeton Reverb for Christmas in '67 and had nothing but SS amps after that and been using Line 6 stuff since the POD XT Live with all the next latest and greatest units. In other words  - I'm ignorant of this stuff.

 

I'm trying to choose the appropriate PC+ speaker models to match my HelixLT default cab sims.

Which speaker models in the Powercab+ match up to Helix cab sims?

By default Helix links US Double Nrm amp version with 212 Double C12N,  Brit J45 Nrm with 412 Greenback 20, MatchstickCh2 with 212 G25, Jazz Rivet with 212 Jazz Rivet, etc.

Which Helix cab sims match the 12 PC+ speaker models?  Based on the PC+ manual, I think that some are obvious: Jetson and Jarvis go with Fenders, Essex goes with Vox Blue Bell, Lecto and Shade to Mesa, Green to Marshall match but the other non trademark Line6 PC+ speaker code names don't tell me a whole lot. What about the rest of them in the PC+ models? Not asking which match of speaker model to amp sound best (that's subjective and I know that we can mix and match to our tastes) - but which are typically used together?

 

[waymda]

I don't think this full list was ever put in the manual - I keep a 'draft email' with it from the release notes of a firmware upgrade, hopefully it helps.

• VINTAGE – Based on* the ubiquitous Celestion Vintage 30 which, despite its name, is commonly used and beloved for "modern" tones. 

• GREEN – Based on* the Celestion Greenback speaker, typically paired with vintage Marshall® Plexi amplifiers for a signature classic rock tone. 

• CREAM – Based on* the Celestion G12M-65, a higher powered version of the ceramic C12N with a brighter top end� 

• JARVIS – Based on* the Jensen® P12Q, often paired with Fender® amps for great rich, full clean tones� 

• BAYOU – Based on* the Eminence Patriot Series Swamp Thang™, which provides big aggressive bottom end with classic American tone, perfect for blues and jazz� 

• ESSEX – Based on* the Blue Bell speakers often paired with Vox® amplifiers and Class A style amps for a "chimey" tone. 

• HF OFF / Natural – This is the natural sound and feel of the speaker in the Powercab with the high-frequency compression driver disabled and no EQ of any kind applied

• DINO – Based on* the Eminence Cannabis Rex™� Uniquely constructed with a hemp-based speaker cone material, the Cannabis Rex is described as having a smoky, smooth high-end definition, and  boasts a full, clean tonality, with lots of body and sparkle. 

• LECTO – Based on* the Electro-Voice® EVM 12L. Designed for professionally precise, fully overdriven, punchy tones and brilliant cleans. They are a signature component of the classic Mesa/Boogie® sound� 

• HERALD – Based on* the Celestion G12H(55) Heritage� Featuring a heavier magnet than the original G12M Greenback, this speaker replicates the sound of the original G12H� 

• BROWN – Based on* the Celestion G12 EVH®. While the Greenback 20 played an essential role in the sound of Eddie Van Halen's unmistakable sound, this speaker was the based on the 60s version Greenback and used in his signature amplifier. 

• SHADE – Based on* the Mesa/Boogie Black Shadow C90� Custom made for Mesa/Boogie by Celestion in the UK, this speaker provides a tight and controlled low end, aggressive midrange attack, and strong high-bass / low-mid punch� They are a feature in many Mesa/Boogie amps� 

• JETSON – Based on* the Jensen C12K� The C12K is often paired with Fender® amps for great for a heavy mid and solid, straight forward, slightly darker tone� Can also present bold and heavy overdriven tones�

[Hey_Joe]

Thanks for the reply waymda.

I have that same list in the POWERCAB FAMILY PILOT’S GUIDE. I'm trying to find out which speakers closely match the Helix's default amp and cab matches to give me an idea of what speaker, for lack of better terms, usually pairs with a type or class of amps in the real world. Does the Mesa/Boogie Black Shadow C90 pair with the Dual Rectifier or the Mark IV based on the Helix default pairing? What amp typically pairs with the BAYOU (Eminence Patriot Series Swamp Thang)? In the analog world would the DINO be put in a Deluxe Reverb. Would  Reinhold Bogner use a HERALD with a Shiva?

 

Does that make more sense in what I'm asking about Helix amp/cab - Powercab+ pairings?

 

Like I said in the OP, I'm not asking which sounds best. I realize after years of using modeling gear that there are no hard and fast rules. I may very well just use what sounds good to me not to mention there are way more cab models in the Helix than there are speaker sims in the Powercab+ (unless Line 6 models 40 plus speakers in various updates).

[waymda]

TBH I have no idea how these relate to the speakers modeled in the cabs within the Helix.

 

I thought maybe this would help https://helixhelp.com/models/13 but no, you'd have to cross reference the manufacturer's specs for the listed cabs and then hope you chose the right variant/production run to work out the equivalent speaker (assuming there is a match).

 

When I was playing with the cab's modelled in the PC+ I started with a guess for the amp based on the list provided, and played from there. As you say your ears are the best bet. I think what I found was some general preferences I had (irrespective of amp), or at least for groupings of amps, which pretty much aligns with the real world of fitting cabs with speakers that reflect personal style.

 

With 2 PC+s one approach I did like was 2 different speakers for one amp with each providing different characteristics, again just like happens in RL.

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful with your original request.

[waymda]

The other observation I'd make is the PC+ can only model the speaker within a cab, and there's no mention of what the reference cab is or if its a 'raw' model affected by being in the PC+ cab.

 

I only raise this as I've had some cab and speaker combinations that work great (for me) and the same speaker in a different cab was, hmmmm, not what I wanted.

[ADBrown]

On 1/6/2021 at 7:04 PM, Hey_Joe said:

I just got my Powercab 112 Plus a month ago. Totally digging it!

I haven't seen a thread on LINE6 Helix, Powercab forums or over on TGP to answer my question.

Got a Princeton Reverb for Christmas in '67 and had nothing but SS amps after that and been using Line 6 stuff since the POD XT Live with all the next latest and greatest units. In other words  - I'm ignorant of this stuff.

 

I'm trying to choose the appropriate PC+ speaker models to match my HelixLT default cab sims.

Which speaker models in the Powercab+ match up to Helix cab sims?

By default Helix links US Double Nrm amp version with 212 Double C12N,  Brit J45 Nrm with 412 Greenback 20, MatchstickCh2 with 212 G25, Jazz Rivet with 212 Jazz Rivet, etc.

Which Helix cab sims match the 12 PC+ speaker models?  Based on the PC+ manual, I think that some are obvious: Jetson and Jarvis go with Fenders, Essex goes with Vox Blue Bell, Lecto and Shade to Mesa, Green to Marshall match but the other non trademark Line6 PC+ speaker code names don't tell me a whole lot. What about the rest of them in the PC+ models? Not asking which match of speaker model to amp sound best (that's subjective and I know that we can mix and match to our tastes) - but which are typically used together?

 

Not every speaker model has a specific matching amp. You are correct that jensons are closely related with Fender, Greenbacks with Marshall, etc. But something like DINO (cannabis rex) is a custom speaker that I've seen end up in a lot of different amps, for a lot of different styles of music. 
Typically when running Helix with PowerCab, you'll want to disable the cab modeling in Helix. This lets you use powercab's physical cabinet and digitally switch speaker models. I think matching up amp models with expected speaker model is a good starting point. I've found some cool tones by mixing and matching unexpected combinations as well. 

[Joepeggio]

I do not have a 112PC or +, but the logic to me is...... 

 

Helix models a cab, speaker, and mic.  All make a difference in the sound obviously.

 

The PC is a physical cab and no mic,  they are modeling the different speakers in that cab.

 

A greenback in a 412 with SM57 will sound different then PC with a green back.

 

I see what you want,  load the Line 6 "IR" (stock ones in Helix) and run that in the PowerCab, like you can with a 3rd party IR.

 

Good Ideascale to ask for it.  Only issue is then you would have to update PCab with Helix updates to keep everything aligned, or they can provide the proprietary IR for you to load in PC.

[Hey_Joe]

Thanks everybody for answers so far.

I guess I should chock it up my lack of knowledge about amps, even though I've been using them for 54 years. I just never messed with any of the amp speakers I had unless I blew one. The last almost 20 years I've been relying on Line 6 and Boss modeling units to play through.

 

So, It looks like as I understand it, there are a few typical speaker matches for particular amp models in the Helix/real world but the others are custom replacements and it's down to what I think sounds best to me when running a Helix amp to a PC+ speaker. I guess it is my misunderstanding that Line 6 was offering some of the same speaker models in the PC+ that they modeled and default matched with amps in the Helix.

 

Thanks again for your comments so far and thanks in advance to any future replies.

[Joepeggio]

41 minutes ago, Hey_Joe said:

 

 

... it's down to what I think sounds best to me when running a Helix amp to a PC+ speaker...

 

 

^^^^

That's the bottom line.  In fact, at times I find the 1x12 US Deluxe cab with the Placater Dirty (Friedman BE-100 dirty) sounds the best.  Go figure.

[amsdenj]

The Powercab speaker models aren't the same kind of models as the Cab blocks in Helix. We don't know the details of how the Powercab speakers are modeled, but I suspect they start with the LF Flat base, and then add simple EQ curves to modify that frequency response to duplicate that of the modeled speaker. This would be easy to do because no IR is needed since the LF Flat speaker is already a guitar speaker in a cabinet in a room. 

 

We also don't know what's coming out of the XLR outputs in speaker mode. But I'd guess these are IRs of the modeled speaker in a 1 or 2x12 ported cabinet - which is what Powercab is. So they wouldn't necessarily correspond to any Helix cab block, although there may be some that would be close. If you picked a cab block with the same speaker in a similar cabinet (closed back, ported), then they should sound pretty similar to the XLR outputs. Fine tune from there.