Helix Floor with XLR out - trying to add external looper

[mrmichaelgibson]

Hi all!

 

 I have seen several posts about using an external looper but I can't seem to make it work correctly.   My path right now...

 

 Line 6 Relay --> Helix Floor (1/4 jack) guitar  --> XLR out --> Alto TS212

 

 Works great and sounds great.  I am OK with the Helix onboard looper, but many of my presets don't have an extra slot so I can put the looper in, plus I'd rather not have to back and add loopers to all my presets.

 

 I have a Boss RC-1.  Works fine if I put it in the chain right before the Helix, but then when playing back the sample it is subject to the snapshot I change to (e.g. I do a clean loop, then switch to a dirty channel and the loop gets distorted). 

 

 So what I am looking for is a way to put the RC-1 at the end of the chain (or something similar) so the loop stays as the original sound, and not have to add an effects block to every preset.    I can do it fine with just using 1/4 out, but I prefer to keep the XLR out if possible.

 

 Any advice for a simple way to do this?

 

 Thanks!

[rd2rk]

1/4" to XLR adapter?

[mrmichaelgibson]

On 4/3/2022 at 4:52 PM, rd2rk said:

1/4" to XLR adapter?

Thanks for the advice.  I just ordered a male XLR --> male 1/4 cable and see how that works out.  That would be great if it's that simple!

[spaceatl]

I would suggest you just use the main 1/4 outs with high quality instrument cables...If you use an adapter, you are converting the analog output signal twice...A Balanced signal does NOT always mean better because that is a converted signal...All initial analog signals are unbalanced. Balancing a signal ALWAYS changes the bandwidth response slightly. So that is the rationale....Are you using the 1/4 outs for something else?

 

I also use Alto TS212s. I have never run balanced to the Altos...They are like 3-5 feet alway...balancing that short is total overkill and converting a balanced signal back to balanced is generally something we stay away from unless it is the only option...just my 2 cents.

 

[mrmichaelgibson]

On 4/4/2022 at 9:26 AM, spaceatl said:

I would suggest you just use the main 1/4 outs with high quality instrument cables...If you use an adapter, you are converting the analog output signal twice...A Balanced signal does NOT always mean better because that is a converted signal...All initial analog signals are unbalanced. Balancing a signal ALWAYS changes the bandwidth response slightly. So that is the rationale....Are you using the 1/4 outs for something else?

 

I also use Alto TS212s. I have never run balanced to the Altos...They are like 3-5 feet alway...balancing that short is total overkill and converting a balanced signal back to balanced is generally something we stay away from unless it is the only option...just my 2 cents.

 

 

 I hadn't thought of that.  I run the XLR cable because I assumed that would produce a better signal / sound.  I will give that a try!

 

So then I assume the chain for me would be:

 

Line 6 Relay --> Helix Floor (1/4 jack) guitar  --> 1/4 cable out --> Looper --> Alto TS212  ?

 

 

[rd2rk]

On 4/4/2022 at 10:26 AM, spaceatl said:

I would suggest you just use the main 1/4 outs with high quality instrument cables...If you use an adapter, you are converting the analog output signal twice...A Balanced signal does NOT always mean better because that is a converted signal...All initial analog signals are unbalanced. Balancing a signal ALWAYS changes the bandwidth response slightly. So that is the rationale....Are you using the 1/4 outs for something else?

 

 

I don't get the "converting the analog output signal twice".

All the adapter does is send the signal down the correct wire to allow use of the XLR jack on the TS212, no?

It doesn't convert an unbalanced signal to a balanced signal.

 

The 1/4" out on the Floor is unbalanced, which means that a 1/4" TS cable is really all that's needed, and though the  the TS212 can take either 1/4" or XLR, there's no real advantage to using XLR. But OP asked, so...

 

[mrmichaelgibson]

Related question - the whole reason I am not using the built-in looper is for presets like this one.   Where would I put a looper block in this?   A lot of my presets have one path out, but I have several like this that I'd like to put a looper block in...

[spaceatl]

On 4/4/2022 at 12:44 PM, rd2rk said:

 

I don't get the "converting the analog output signal twice".

All the adapter does is send the signal down the correct wire to allow use of the XLR jack on the TS212, no?

It doesn't convert an unbalanced signal to a balanced signal.

 

The 1/4" out on the Floor is unbalanced, which means that a 1/4" TS cable is really all that's needed, and though the  the TS212 can take either 1/4" or XLR, there's no real advantage to using XLR. But OP asked, so...

 

Understood. Too much EE in my life I guess...just my perspective, nothing more...

 

When the analog output is initially created by the codec converter, that signal is an unbalanced signal. In order to balance that signal for transmission over long cable runs (analog snakes, etc...) the source signal is converted to a balanced signal for line transmission. This could be a quasi approach where it is just inverted or an isolated approach where a transformer is used. On the other side of the balanced run where it might go into a console or amplifier, the balanced signals are converted back to unbalanced before actually being amplified...Each step affects the response....It will not be exactly the same. It's generally slightly detrimental as it will reduce the bandwidth response...But it's generally not anything most would notice...Even audiophiles...

 

When you get down to 5-10' runs, an unbalanced signal will actually be a bit stronger and have less distortion than the balanced conversion does. That is the only point I was trying to make, albeit, a bit poorly. Look at the runs and balance or unbalance based on the situation and what is available...