Helix LT- proper routing IEM on stage

[Glowal2]

Hi! 

I have a question. I would like to connect my Helix directly to my mixer and than to my headphones IEM or wedge. 

 

Sometimes sound from engineer console to my wedge or IEM is bad.. Eq is terible. So I thought maybe I can take only band mix (without my guitar) from sound engeener into my 1th channel in mixer and in 2nd channel I can plug my Helix from headphones out? Than mix this two channel and that is done. My band and well sounding presets from helix :D

 

Will it work? There're be no input lags between my Helix and global console? 

 

I use two XLR outputs so better to use is 2xXlr and headphones out or maybe 2XLR and left 1/4 jack? 

 

Thanks for your reply or various tips :) 

[DunedinDragon]

I'm not sure I completely understand what you're trying to say, but I understand you want to take a monitor feed from the main mixer and process it along with your guitar signal and mix your own IEM or wedge mix.  But I'm not sure that fixes anything.  If you're getting a poorly EQ'd mix from the mixing console to your wedge, you're still going to get a poorly EQ'd mix going into your Helix which you'll combine with your guitar.  I'm a little skeptical that you're using the correct terminology when you say your monitor feed is poorly EQ'd and I suspect what you mean is it's poorly mixed (different instruments and voices are either too quiet or too loud).  But that's not something you can fix on your end because you'd be receiving all instruments and voices as a pre-mixed stereo feed which you have no ability to change on an instrument by instrument basis.

I think you'd be better off correcting the problem the proper way by getting your monitor feed corrected.  No matter what the issue is, the tools for correcting the monitor mix properly are at the mixer...not on your Helix.  Whether it's EQ or mix that's the problem, you should be able to get a completely customized mix of all the instruments and voices from the mixer that meets your specific needs...something that you can't do on your Helix or on any piece of gear if you're just receiving a stereo mix of the band from the mixer.  You do that sort of thing during sound check by letting the person running the board know what you need corrected in your mix through your wedge.

[Glowal2]

That wasn't quite the point. Sometimes we play with our own sound engeener and each of us can set ourselves aux and mix to iem/wedge on our ipads. (EQ on aux channel and every instrument itp.) 

 

But sometimes we've got random guy, without mixer with WiFi and he hasn't got time to setup EQ on aux to wedge/iem.

 

In front stage speaker you know, sounds briliant but EQ in aux/return signal to IEM is flat or bad and there is no time to setup EQ on aux channel. 

 

So, can I take only band signal from main mixer to my mixer and in second channel add signal directly from my Helix by headphones out to my mixer (1th channel band aux without my guitar. 2nd channel my Helix from headphones out). Will there be no delays beetwen direct out helix and aux from main mixer? 

 

In this case I can bypass bad EQ on aux signal in sound engeener mixer. That ruin my preset sound in IEM and that sounds bad with whole band mixing :( 

I need to play with one headphone out from my ear to hear in front. 

 

 

Thanks for info :) 

 

 

 

[ricstudioc]

FWIW this is pretty much exactly what I do - I re-associated with a prior band for some special projects, and in my (several years) absence they had transitioned from wedges to in-ears as well as going from an analog board to an X32.  I had picked up a cost-effective in-ear system (an Xvive U4, great bang for the buck), but literally on my way to the first gig I got nervous about trusting my personal guitar monitor to the sound guy.  (Not chucking stones at him, Jesse is one of the best mix guys I've worked with.  But seconds count on stage, and hearing myself clearly is non-negotiable).

 

So I swung by a local GC on my way to that gig and picked up a little 4 channel mixer (Harbinger), big selling points were that it had 2 XLR ins and XLR main outs.  Cost about $70.  At load-in/setup I sent Helix XLR (mono) to the FOH snake - took the XLR monitor out from the snake into Ch 1 on my mixer  I took the 1/4" out from Helix and ran it into Ch 2 on my mix.  The Xvive transmitter is a dongle-sized dealie that plugs into the XLR out on my mixer.  I then told Jesse to send me a general band mix without my guitar in it.  So now beside me on stage I have the ability to control the relative band/me blend.  Half a dozen or so shows in and it's been working perfectly, no noticeable latency issues or such.  Kind of an "Aviom lite".

 

Worth noting that I'm not a monitor snob - hell, when I was starting out stage monitors weren't even a thing.  You had your Shure Vocalmaster columns out front and that was that - eventually PA systems got better and those columns became the monitors for a while.  So I've always done just fine with what I hear from the stage itself - the whole in-ear thing is just icing on the cake.  Don't need a perfect reference mix, just need a reference.  Over these last few shows Jesse has tweaked my band mix to where it's quite good, but it was fine early on.  But I have the final say as to how much of ME I'm getting at all times.

 

 

[Glowal2]

On 4/18/2022 at 6:27 PM, ricstudioc said:

FWIW this is pretty much exactly what I do - I re-associated with a prior band for some special projects, and in my (several years) absence they had transitioned from wedges to in-ears as well as going from an analog board to an X32.  I had picked up a cost-effective in-ear system (an Xvive U4, great bang for the buck), but literally on my way to the first gig I got nervous about trusting my personal guitar monitor to the sound guy.  (Not chucking stones at him, Jesse is one of the best mix guys I've worked with.  But seconds count on stage, and hearing myself clearly is non-negotiable).

 

So I swung by a local GC on my way to that gig and picked up a little 4 channel mixer (Harbinger), big selling points were that it had 2 XLR ins and XLR main outs.  Cost about $70.  At load-in/setup I sent Helix XLR (mono) to the FOH snake - took the XLR monitor out from the snake into Ch 1 on my mixer  I took the 1/4" out from Helix and ran it into Ch 2 on my mix.  The Xvive transmitter is a dongle-sized dealie that plugs into the XLR out on my mixer.  I then told Jesse to send me a general band mix without my guitar in it.  So now beside me on stage I have the ability to control the relative band/me blend.  Half a dozen or so shows in and it's been working perfectly, no noticeable latency issues or such.  Kind of an "Aviom lite".

 

Worth noting that I'm not a monitor snob - hell, when I was starting out stage monitors weren't even a thing.  You had your Shure Vocalmaster columns out front and that was that - eventually PA systems got better and those columns became the monitors for a while.  So I've always done just fine with what I hear from the stage itself - the whole in-ear thing is just icing on the cake.  Don't need a perfect reference mix, just need a reference.  Over these last few shows Jesse has tweaked my band mix to where it's quite good, but it was fine early on.  But I have the final say as to how much of ME I'm getting at all times.

 

 

 

Ricstudioc That's what it's all about!

 

Nice, thanks for yours reply guys and that's what I'm going to start doing :) I was a little afraid about latency but there is nothing to be afraid of.  :) 

 

I'll check it out at my next gig :) 

 

One more time, thanks to you guys :) 

[ricstudioc]

On 4/18/2022 at 12:02 PM, Glowal2 said:

 

Ricstudioc That's what it's all about!

 

Nice, thanks for yours reply guys and that's what I'm going to start doing :) I was a little afraid about latency but there is nothing to be afraid of.  :) 

 

I'll check it out at my next gig :) 

 

One more time, thanks to you guys :) 

Let us know how it goes.  Like I say, I've been as happy as that proverbial pig, but I never make assumptions for others.

 

Funny about "latency" - most folks will throw the term around, and it's certainly a real thing, but seems like folks I encounter don't grasp that it exists in the real world and not only digital.  I tend to play large stages, call it 50ft or more wide.  With sound travelling at 1msec/foot (variables apply) that means that the guy on the other side of the stage is taking around 50ms to reach me, with varying lower figures from folks closer to me.  It's amazing we've ever been able to make sense of anything on a stage.

 

The X32 console reports an in-to-out latency of about 1msec.  Let's be pessimistic and call it 3 - so miked cab (?) to console to monitor return sits in that range.  Let's assume some additional latency at my digital transmitter, maybe 2msec?  My Helix 1/4" line to the mixer (after internal conversion) is analog.  Add that all up and the band mix I'm listening to is maybe 4-5msec total from moment of creation, with my Gtr signal being 1-2msec off of that.  Compared to hearing just the stage sound, the in ears (which bring everything to me at the same time) are a clear winner.

 

BTW we record every show - I've never heard anything that would be called "latency" getting to the audience.  They hear it fine, I hear it fine - winner!

 

Good luck - have fun - let us know!