IR Loader, options?

[themetallikid]

Ok so I'm debating about getting an offboard IR loader to offload the DSP requirements for cabs/IR's in my presets.  While I'm not 'running out of 'dsp' on my presets often, I have a few that do suffer the compromise as I create presets for songs and when you get to 2 or 3 amp sounds in a song, it gets tough.  Even as creative as I can be with moving blocks and routing things.  

 

So, pending the upcoming update and if it solves anything that way for me, what IR loaders would/could accomplish what I'm looking for?  I've searched the Sweetwater App and messaged my rep for advice, but curious if anyone here is doing something similar.  

 

I'm looking for:

 

Stereo IR/Cab capability (not a deal breaker if not available)

control via Helix (midi or otherwise)

 

If the stereo thing isn't available, I would not be against buying a 2nd one to split the L/R potentially.  Not a deal breaker though.   I love the specs of the TC Electronic pedal, but it just doesn't have the controlling capability I'd like as some songs would require changing the IR via snapshots.

 

Anything anyone is using?  

[spaceatl]

i think control throws it into $300 range for a torpedo etc...I have thought on this and I think I would add an HX stomp dedicated to IRs. the extra 4 blocks yield tuning options and paths. just a thought. my use is a bit more bass oriented, but i use an instrument ir and a cab ir generally and it's a bit intensive on the dsp...don't need it but for a several patches it would be very handy.

[PierM]

I would ask myself "do I really need an iR loader?"

 

I mean, if you are into a cover band, that needs a virtual infinite number of amp/cab solution, I would for sure go for a IR loader. But if you have your own tone, mostly using the same amp/cab setup, I would go for a amp/cab pedal modeler, like Iridium, UA ruby, dream 65,  woodrow, ACS1 and similar stuff. (and yes, they are all stereo)

 

I started as fanatic of cab iRs, but at some point I was going lost into a rabbit hole, wasting more time browsing sounds than playing.

 

Iridium saved my time (and lot of DSP since it will unload both amp and cab/iR blocks). :)

 

Then, imho stereo IRs arent that useful in a real scenario, I would just go for a mono iR and do stereo after the FX Loop that will host that IR Loader on the Helix.

 

Torpedo CABM+ also a beast spec wise, but never tested myself, but seems very good from reviews.

 

The little TC IR loader is gold for this, and it has a nice display to show you the loaded iR. Sounds just good as Helix IR block (I believe it also has same specs) and it's "cheap".

 

 

 

 

 

[themetallikid]

On 9/23/2022 at 3:57 AM, PierM said:

I would ask myself "do I really need an iR loader?"

 

I mean, if you are into a cover band, that needs a virtual infinite number of amp/cab solution, I would for sure go for a IR loader. But if you have your own tone, mostly using the same amp/cab setup, I would go for a amp/cab pedal modeler, like Iridium, UA ruby, dream 65,  woodrow, ACS1 and similar stuff. (and yes, they are all stereo)

 

I started as fanatic of cab iRs, but at some point I was going lost into a rabbit hole, wasting more time browsing sounds than playing.

 

Iridium saved my time (and lot of DSP since it will unload both amp and cab/iR blocks). :)

 

Then, imho stereo IRs arent that useful in a real scenario, I would just go for a mono iR and do stereo after the FX Loop that will host that IR Loader on the Helix.

 

Torpedo CABM+ also a beast spec wise, but never tested myself, but seems very good from reviews.

 

The little TC IR loader is gold for this, and it has a nice display to show you the loaded iR. Sounds just good as Helix IR block (I believe it also has same specs) and it's "cheap".

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) I have asked myself if I 'need' one and I think the payoff could be worth it.  I asked if there were options that others were using that would meet MY needs.  I asked myself, searched, and didnt find an exact product that met my criteria so was asking for help on products I may not be aware of.  

 

2) My usage needs are just that, a cover band, mostly.  However even in my own tone needs, I prefer keeping a cab authentic to the amp I'm using.  Fender > Fender Cab, Marshall > Marshall type cab etc.  In my current project the original artist (tribute band) uses a dual amp type setup.  Thus the need for a stereo option, or at least a cheap enough option to run 2 that can be controlled by the helix on a per preset/snapshot level.  I run 2 different IR's (one for each amp), Sometimes I run 2 of the lighter gain amp to get the right sound for the song and sometimes I run 2 of the heavier gained amp to get the right sound.  There are also a few songs where there is an acoustic sound and the lighter gain sound, which then gets me into 3 or 4 different IR's in the same song/preset.  So being able to switch them would be greatly beneficial.  

 

3) I'm not one to get lost in the 'rabbit hole'  I find sounds that work for what I'm using.  I'll try other ones out, but I don't buy the 700 IR packages.  I'm happy with York IR's and even have been happy with stock cabs, which is why I had at one time considered the Powercabs, however I just don't know if the issues I read about those would be worth it to me or not for the price point.

 

4) the TC Electronic one would be perfect, if I had a way to control the IR via snapshot at all.  Priced and designed well for sure.  

 

 

In a crazy world where I had a well educated sound guy, I suppose I could just run 2 of the TC's and run them from different outputs.  Not sure how it would affect the sound guys mix overall.  But I could run 3 TC's and just make sure each IR is going to its own output.  Each output would then be Mono essentially and panned.  

 

Light Gain Cab - Left Output XLR

Heavy Gain Cab - Right Output XLR

Acoustic Cab - send 1

 

That seems like a mess though and for the $300ish plus shipping and taxes and such I might as well just spend a little extra on a HX Effects, which then gets into more than I wanna spend.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PierM]

On 9/23/2022 at 3:22 PM, themetallikid said:

 

1) I have asked myself if I 'need' one and I think the payoff could be worth it.  I asked if there were options that others were using that would meet MY needs.  I asked myself, searched, and didnt find an exact product that met my criteria so was asking for help on products I may not be aware of.  

 

2) My usage needs are just that, a cover band, mostly.  However even in my own tone needs, I prefer keeping a cab authentic to the amp I'm using.  Fender > Fender Cab, Marshall > Marshall type cab etc.  In my current project the original artist (tribute band) uses a dual amp type setup.  Thus the need for a stereo option, or at least a cheap enough option to run 2 that can be controlled by the helix on a per preset/snapshot level.  I run 2 different IR's (one for each amp), Sometimes I run 2 of the lighter gain amp to get the right sound for the song and sometimes I run 2 of the heavier gained amp to get the right sound.  There are also a few songs where there is an acoustic sound and the lighter gain sound, which then gets me into 3 or 4 different IR's in the same song/preset.  So being able to switch them would be greatly beneficial.  

 

3) I'm not one to get lost in the 'rabbit hole'  I find sounds that work for what I'm using.  I'll try other ones out, but I don't buy the 700 IR packages.  I'm happy with York IR's and even have been happy with stock cabs, which is why I had at one time considered the Powercabs, however I just don't know if the issues I read about those would be worth it to me or not for the price point.

 

4) the TC Electronic one would be perfect, if I had a way to control the IR via snapshot at all.  Priced and designed well for sure.  

 

 

In a crazy world where I had a well educated sound guy, I suppose I could just run 2 of the TC's and run them from different outputs.  Not sure how it would affect the sound guys mix overall.  But I could run 3 TC's and just make sure each IR is going to its own output.  Each output would then be Mono essentially and panned.  

 

Light Gain Cab - Left Output XLR

Heavy Gain Cab - Right Output XLR

Acoustic Cab - send 1

 

That seems like a mess though and for the $300ish plus shipping and taxes and such I might as well just spend a little extra on a HX Effects, which then gets into more than I wanna spend.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems you would really benefit of a HX Stomp companion to do all this stuff. I can't honestly think any other efficient solution in terms of remoting, parallel path, stereo, displaying and routing - in a single box.

 

HX Effects also would be perfect, but with the stomp you could completely unload the amp/cab/iR from the main Helix DSP, and also keeping the beatiful display for editing and routing parallel stuff. Price aren't that different, and used market is flooded of HX Stomp in mint condition.

[themetallikid]

Found this, it seems like the perfect option for me.   And maybe others.....

 

https://www.joyoaudio.com/product/11.html

[PierM]

This is a cab/mic modeler, with just a very basic iR support. It has its own amp and cab algos.

 

Only 10 slots for external iR... That's in the therritory of Iridium, which has 3x3 slots (9 total, subdivided into 3 main amps), but with much lower quality, as this unit IR specs are just 44.1Khz, 21ms, 1024 points, versus 94Khz, 500ms, 48000 points. Not trying to sell you an iridium, but only 10 iR slots, at this quality, it might result in a good looking doorstop after couple of months, especially if those amp/cab models sucks...

 

Just food for thought...

[themetallikid]

I can't pretend to understand what half of those specs mean, but 10 slots is enough for me.  I use 4 currently.  and that leaves 6 experimenting or adding other sounds.  I typically will have about 6-8 sounds for my own tones and then build song/presets off those.  Usually the cleanish ones share the same cab/IR and the gainier ones share as well.  Unless there is a unique enough sound I need.  

 

Also, beyond the 10 slots restriction....is anyone going to notice the difference in those specs live?  In a sub 200 capacity club, in a band mix....I doubt it.  

 

Again, waiting to see what the upcoming update brings to the table.

 

Edit, the Iridium looks good as well.  Which at that pricepoint I might as well just get a stomp then right?

[PierM]

It's always about personal needs and ears. Rule number 1.

 

The Joyo would probably work great for your needs. Iridium cost more than the Joyo, but much less than a Stomp.

 

Anyway, on paper, a 21ms Impulse is fine and absolutely enough for tight cab responses, with the mic very close to the speaker and maybe a small cabinet. For very focused mic position, and small cabs, a longer impulse would be primarly a waste.

 

In the other hand, a longer impulse is helping in saving the full impulse decay, plus the inner frequencies and harmonics produced by the sound waves traveling within the cab.

 

As for the mix; nothing can be reverse engineered by ears from a mix. You couldnt even tell if someone is playing an original 1959 400K dollars burst, or USA Les Paul, a Helix or a Fractal, a real stack of marshalls or a stack of IRs. I never follow this kind of logic, mostly because it would prevent me to buy more stuff, lol.

 

I do tend to agree with you that if you dont need those pumped iR specs and more than 4 slots, then the Joyo seems the right choice. :)

 

Upcoming 3.2 firmware rumors are whispering about new cab technology...Im also curious.

 

o/