Few noob questions and thoughts

[EddieTheTrooper]

First of all hi! :)
I'm beginner guitarist. I start learning alone many years ago with mixed results but for some reasons i had to stop. Now I want to try again. I already have quite good guitar(at least for my level ): limited Epiphone Thunderhorse Expolorer(actually didn't planned to buy this guitar but I love Explorers so much) and Fender Mustang I V2 amplifier. My first set was some cheap Harley Benton guitar with amp and it was crap. Didn't like to practice and play with them. I remeber that moment when I changed guitar and amp for Epi and Mustang. It was something amazing.  The sound compared to HB set was so great. And now it was very motivating. I just wanted to play and practice. So now, after some years when Im returning to my hobby I decided to change something for better. I wanted to feel this kick once more one I changed my set. The choice fell on amp. I decided to change my mustang for Catalyst. I saw people doing amazing things with it.
And now I have it. 60W version
What a huge disappointment(at least for now. Hope this will changed, cause I really watched all those movies on internet with people doing great things with it)
First of all. All the factory settings and presets sounds bad. Very bad. All of them. There was now "WOW" effect on me when i plugged in guitar and start playing. Instead I was more and more disappointed. So i tried to modify presets. And now second disappointment. IMO the amp is not user friendly and especially not beginners friendly. Not much I can do from amp itself, and Catalyst Edit is overwhelming for me. I really like Fender Fuse. Catalyst Edit is probably very good tool, but I don't know and understand most of the parameters. Also third disappointment. Despite the amp has many effect using them is very limited even compared to my old Mustang. In Mustang I could choose one from many amp models, apply to it some effects and save it as a preset. Here I can also choose one from many effect but I can use only one effect, and one reverb at time. I'm not a musician, probably never will be but even for me its very limited. Also the footswitch. Its also not intuitive. I have one button to change Chanel and one to activate or deactivate effect. That is strange for me. But enough of my thoughts. Here are my question:
1. Is there any manual, guide or some tutorials for Catalyst Edit explaining all the parameters and effects?
2. When you create your one sound from scratch, what do you do? How do you start? What are basic principles for that. I'm asking cause I'm overwhelmed by the Catalyst Edit. In my Mustang it was easier. There were thousands of ready presets to download which I could then modify. For Catalyst there are so few presets. Not much to choose from. I have make my sound from scratch. And I don't know what to do and how to start. My music is mostly classic rock and metal, From Aerosmith to Iron Maiden. Not much interested in ultra high gained music, but I also like power metal like Nightwish or something like that. So any advice would be welcome :)

PS. Ok, maybe not all of the presets are so bad. Those crunch presets are ok, so maybe it's good starting point

[rd2rk]

I'll try to provide some basic advice and usage hints, on one condition.

When you reply, DO NOT mention your Fender Mustang unless it's to say "I sold the Catalyst and kept the Mustang".

I really don't care and don't want to hear it.

 

So, my first piece of advice is to sell the Catalyst and keep the Mustang. You seem to like it a lot, why not go with what you know?

 

If you want to keep the Cat, and you bought it at a store with a proper return policy, take it back and swap it for a Cat100. You'll see why below.

 

Assuming you've decided to keep the Cat, here goes:

 

Start on Bank 1, Channel A. See Page 8 of the Pilot's Guide. DL it if you don't have the hard copy.

 

Once you've done that, start by pressing the MANUAL button. Use the Amp Selector Knob to select an amp. Turn GAIN OFF (full counterclockwise).

Turn all of the Tone knobs to noon EXCEPT Presence. Turn Presence OFF for now. Effects and Reverb OFF.

 

Set Wattage at .5 watts, Channel and Master at noon. While strumming, slowly turn up the gain to a pleasing level.

 

Starting with BASS, while strumming sweep each tone knob end to end and back, noting what they do and stopping when it sounds nice. The tone knobs are somewhat interactive, so note also how they interact. Certain tone changes, especially around the midrange, can affect the GAIN, so keep that in mind as another potential interaction.

When the amp sounds nice, press and hold the Channel A button until the LEDs start blinking.

Now press and hold the Channel B button until the LEDs start blinking.

 

Switch to Bank 2 Channel A. Repeat the above process with a different amp.

 

When you reach Bank 6 you'll have 6 2-channel amps, each with both channels set identically.

 

Now, grab a beverage, sit down in your recliner and READ THE PILOT'S GUIDE! Pay special attention to the Catalyst edit section.

While you can select FX/Reverbs from the panel, you can't set their parameters from there. The whole process of dealing with the FX/Reverbs is SO much easier from the Edit Screen. Overwhelming? IT'S ONE SCREEN with a couple of dropdowns!

 

As to the footswitch and two FX limitation. This is not a modeling amp in the same way as the Mustang, L6 Spider or Peavey Vyper.

Your two button FS controls the Channel and either the FX ON/OFF or BOOST ON/OFF. If you use it for BOOST you can set the B Channel to have the FX ON, and thus mimic an FX ON/OFF Switch. ITRW, the second channel of a two channel amp is usually the LEAD CHANNEL. Think of it that way. Also, if you MUST have more FX available at all times, you can put OD/DIST/FUZZ pedals between the guitar and amp, and you can put Mods/Delays/Reverbs either before or after the amp in the FX Loop.

 

NOTE: The FX Loop is NOT between the pre and power sections in the same way as a traditional amp. The power amp of the catalyst is more like taking a line to a PA. FX placed in the Cat's FX loop function more like Rack FX in a studio. While I'm sure that somebody has done it, it's rare that someone would put a FUZZ in a Rack in the studio!

 

Keep in mind that you don't HAVE to use all 6 amps. You might only use a CLEAN, a CRUNCH and a HIGH GAIN amp, but use two or 3 Banks for each, with different settings and FX in each Bank. Once you've become familiar with the amps through the above suggested procedures you'll be able to narrow it down to your favorites. For instance, I mostly use the Boutique, Crunch and Dynamic amps.

 

Which brings us to the question of switching Banks. You either do it manually from the panel (not practical in performance), or you get a MIDI FS. The MIDI knowledge required here is neither VooDoo nor Rocket Science, but MIDI switchers are an extra expense. It doesn't sound like you're ready to jump into a gigging band just yet, so worry about it later. For now just consider what I said above about swapping your Cat60 for a Cat100. You can't just plug a MIDI controller into the Cat60 without being tethered to a computer like you can with the Cat100, and the external host box required to use MIDI with the Cat 60 away from a computer costs about the same as the upcharge to a Cat100.

 

Earlier in this thread I posted a couple of summaries of what's NOT in the Pilot's Guide. You can also find a lot of info here:

 

VGuitar Forums - Index

 

Posted by Elantric, who also posts in the Digital and Modeling Forum on The Gear Page.

 

I've given you a lot of homework to do. Do it and you'll be happy with your Catalyst. Or not. But at least you'll know why, and you'll have learned a lot in the process.

 

 

[EddieTheTrooper]

Thank you for your advises. Lot of work ahead of me. But I have some good starting point and after whole day of experimenting I'm getting little closer to the sounds I wanted. At least I'm more satisfied with the sound than I was at the beginning. But I noticed one strange(or maybe not so strange) thing. My old Charvel CX 390 with Seymour Duncan pickups sounds much better(to me) on this amp even with default presets. Maybe this amp doesn't like my Epi with Gibson Burstbucker pickups. hmm... but still It's probably me who can't release it's full potential.

That's why I think I will stay with the amp, I really liked the sound of people playing it on the internet and I know it can sound really amazing. At least I will learn something new. Up to now I was taking the easy way by downloading presets made by someone else. Maybe it's time to do the work by myself.
Although the idea of changing the 60w to 100W it's very tempting i think I won't do that. The problem is my room where I will be playing most of the time. It is small... very small. Yes I know that 100W is not so much bigger but the problem is that 60w version is a thigh fit and everything bigger can be a problem. So I think I will stay with this amp and if I stay with it for a longer time i will buy Airstep. I think it's compatible with Cat 60(am I right?) Unless there is a cheaper solution ... I really would like to have 3 or 4 programmable buttos 

[rd2rk]

On 10/14/2022 at 8:14 AM, EddieTheTrooper said:

I think it's compatible with Cat 60(am I right?) Unless there is a cheaper solution ... I really would like to have 3 or 4 programmable buttos 

 

As long as the model you choose has the USB Host function it should work. The Katana50 is similar to the Cat60 in that it does not have MIDI DIN connectors, and they have a model made for the Kat50 so I would say so.

 

I would NOT (despite what some internet geek/wizards might say) depend on Bluetooth for ANYTHING! I have the Xsonic Airstep BW for use with my Waza Air Headphones, and it disconnects constantly. That's in the living room of my 1 bedroom apartment! Annoying and creativity inhibiting, to say the least!

[EddieTheTrooper]

I have one more question. I have read here that to use Cat with the application on my tablet it has to support "USB Host mode". I've made diagnostics just like in this topic and verdict was negative. But when I connected my tablet to an amp and run Cat Edit everything looks fine. So how is that possible or maybe I don't understand something?
And second noob question. Can I record my guitar on to tablet just like I can record in windows using for example Audacity? Are there any similar applications that allow this?
EDIT: OK, looks like the Cat Edit works fine, but I won't be able to record :(

[EddieTheTrooper]

I just tried Audio Evolution mobile app and it has detected my Cat so I think Im on a good way. But unfortunately when I hit record button... nothing happens.It's not recording. Any ideas?

Edit:  I don't understand why but when I plugged out the usb cable and pluged it in once more I was able to record but whenever I lunch this app Cat Edit stops working
 

[rd2rk]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:20 PM, EddieTheTrooper said:

I have one more question. I have read here that to use Cat with the application on my tablet it has to support "USB Host mode". I've made diagnostics just like in this topic and verdict was negative. But when I connected my tablet to an amp and run Cat Edit everything looks fine. So how is that possible or maybe I don't understand something?
And second noob question. Can I record my guitar on to tablet just like I can record in windows using for example Audacity? Are there any similar applications that allow this?
EDIT: OK, looks like the Cat Edit works fine, but I won't be able to record :(

 

Edit works because your tablet (in my case my iPhone) IS a Host.

 

I don't use recording SW on my phone so I can't help you there, but someone MIGHT be able to help with your recording/multi-tasking problem IF we knew the details of the tablet in question.

 

I tried Audacity once. thought it was crap. Get Reaper. FREE until you realize that it's a GREAT DAW and someone deserves to be paid for all the hard work they put into it. Then it's (currently) $60 for a lifetime license.

 

EDIT: Reaper also has the most and best online tutorials and an active and helpful community.

[EddieTheTrooper]

On 10/15/2022 at 2:51 AM, rd2rk said:

I don't use recording SW on my phone so I can't help you there, but someone MIGHT be able to help with your recording/multi-tasking problem IF we knew the details of the tablet in question.

I will start new thread for this

 

Quote

 

I tried Audacity once. thought it was crap. Get Reaper. FREE until you realize that it's a GREAT DAW and someone deserves to be paid for all the hard work they put into it. Then it's (currently) $60 for a lifetime license.

 

EDIT: Reaper also has the most and best online tutorials and an active and helpful community.

 

I heard good opinions about this program but I need for now something simple just to record my exercises. But tell me one thing. Does Reaper have on option to record sound from Spotify? Audacity can record everything I play on my computer. This is very useful for me

[rd2rk]

On 10/15/2022 at 10:05 AM, EddieTheTrooper said:

Does Reaper have on option to record sound from Spotify? Audacity can record everything I play on my computer. This is very useful for me

 

Directly? Not that I know of. I do it by taking the HP out from my computer (internal soundcard set as primary audio playback device in Windows Sound Panel) to a pair of inputs (set to stereo) on my AI. This allows me to record my guitar and the streaming audio on separate tracks.

 

If you have a minimal AI (not enough inputs or Catalyst only) and Audacity is sufficient to your current needs, then Rock On!

[EddieTheTrooper]

On 10/15/2022 at 7:28 PM, rd2rk said:

Directly? Not that I know of. I do it by taking the HP out from my computer (internal soundcard set as primary audio playback device in Windows Sound Panel) to a pair of inputs (set to stereo) on my AI. This allows me to record my guitar and the streaming audio on separate tracks.

Yes. Audacity allows recording everything you hear in your speakers. Quite simple ad useful for me

I have one more question about Cat. Is there any way to improve sound quality when using headphones? The guitar sounds terribly on my headphones, so just wondering if there is any solution for that. Maybe i should use studio headphones? I use Marshall Major IV headphones which I sometimes love and sometimes hates. They sound strange. Sound is heavily modify, not natural I guess the intention was to simulate Marshall's sound or something. Some songs sound great other not. But anyway maybe poor guitar sound it's at least partially their fault

[rd2rk]

You can try changing the default speaker emulation and/or mic.

But it's probably the headphones.

Something designed for consumer use might be better than "studio" headphones, and often what's advertised as "studio" is not really.

True studio headphones are priced accordingly and are usually more harsh sounding (IME) than consumer grade because they are designed to be flat, and we're not really used to flat.

[EddieTheTrooper]

Thnx, changing speaker emulation and mic improved the sound a little bit. In the future I will try different headphones. 
Another question. Where on android Cat Edit store saved presets? Can't find them anywhere 

EDIT: Never mind. I've found them

[EddieTheTrooper]

I must admit that. I was totally wrong about this amp. These guys are playing only on FABRIC presets. It sounds great! And it's much different than my experience with my guitar. What strikes me most is that all those 6 modeled amps, when compered actually sound like totally different amps. They have much different characteristics. That's what I don't feel on my guitar. When playing on my Epi every amp simulation sounds like just the same amp only with different gain level and EQ settings. I will test it more. And Im waiting impatiently for my Charvell  to return form service to check this more

Looks like it's not the amp that I don't like. It's my beautiful Epi which make my sad :(

[rd2rk]

 

What's a FABRIC Preset?

[EddieTheTrooper]

Factory presets I meant .

EDIT. But anyway . Is there any way to increase the sound from a tablet on amp? When practicing on 1/2W mode while using a metronome or Guitar Pro or Spotify the sound is very quiet. I have to turn master volume almost to full. On the other hand, sound from YouTube is quite loud. I tried to boos sound by using downloaded EQ app but difference is minimal if any. 
And second problem.  The Cat is... lets say whimsical when it comes to playing sound from tablet via USB. Sometimes there is no sound and not much I can do only wait until it starts playing once gain on its own

 

EDIT2: Here is the one review I've just found. And this guy got the same 2 conclusions as I after plugging the guitar for the first time. He hates default presets and he don't hear much difference between the amp models But this contrast with the video I posted above where actually I liked very much the sound I've heard.  So I'm wondering... can the guitar and it's pickups change the perception of how sounds this amp so much? I know that the guitar itself and it's pickups is important, everyone sounds different but I'm surprised that much...

[littlespaceman]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:47 PM, rd2rk said:

 

As long as the model you choose has the USB Host function it should work. The Katana50 is similar to the Cat60 in that it does not have MIDI DIN connectors, and they have a model made for the Kat50 so I would say so.

 

I would NOT (despite what some internet geek/wizards might say) depend on Bluetooth for ANYTHING! I have the Xsonic Airstep BW for use with my Waza Air Headphones, and it disconnects constantly. That's in the living room of my 1 bedroom apartment! Annoying and creativity inhibiting, to say the least!

I'm still waiting for an Xsonic firmware to allow the Airstep Multi to act as a USB host for the Catalyst 60. It's been quite a long time coming, and I believe they are still working on it, but I am losing patience and therefore I am thinking of selling the Catalyst. I don't want the Cat 100 as it has the same issue that I don't like about the Cat 60, which is to say that the FX loop is not useable if you wish to place a looper pedal and use the onboard time based effects, as the FX loop is placed BEFORE the built in effects. 

This means that if you record a rhythm track on a looper, placed in the FX loop, and then want to add a lead track over the top, turning the built in delay on or off will also affect anything that has already been recorded to the looper. 

[EddieTheTrooper]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:00 PM, littlespaceman said:

I'm still waiting for an Xsonic firmware to allow the Airstep Multi to act as a USB host for the Catalyst 60. It's been quite a long time coming, and I believe they are still working on it

So, the Airstep is at the moment useless for using with Cat? Sad. I don't need it yet but I was hoping to buy it in the future. Hope they didn't abandon this

 

EDIT:  Despite my constant complaints I'm slowly starting to like this amp. At least I have now few settings that I like :)

[rd2rk]

 

On 10/18/2022 at 6:00 AM, littlespaceman said:

I'm still waiting for an Xsonic firmware to allow the Airstep Multi to act as a USB host for the Catalyst 60.

 

On 10/18/2022 at 11:12 AM, EddieTheTrooper said:

So, the Airstep is at the moment useless for using with Cat? Sad. I don't need it yet but I was hoping to buy it in the future. Hope they didn't abandon this

 

 

I'm not sure that any of this is correct.

 

The Airstep Multi is a USB Host. A USB Host is not specific to one device. It either is a Host or it isn't.

It is also programmable thru the Airstep App.

While there is no Cat specific version such as for the Kat and others, it should be possible to program it to control the Cat.

@littlespaceman , you should probably sell your Cat as the FX Loop doesn't work the way you need it to, but I don't get the problem with the Xsonic Airstep Multi. Have you actually attempted to program one to work with your Cat? I have the BW version for use with the Waza Air headphones, and that version is not programmable or I'd test it myself.

 

On 10/17/2022 at 10:17 PM, EddieTheTrooper said:

EDIT. But anyway . Is there any way to increase the sound from a tablet on amp? When practicing on 1/2W mode while using a metronome or Guitar Pro or Spotify the sound is very quiet. I have to turn master volume almost to full. On the other hand, sound from YouTube is quite loud. I tried to boos sound by using downloaded EQ app but difference is minimal if any. 
And second problem.  The Cat is... lets say whimsical when it comes to playing sound from tablet via USB. Sometimes there is no sound and not much I can do only wait until it starts playing once gain on its own

 

I'm not at all sure what you're doing. I used the Cat's ASIO to record into Ableton with the Metronome and the levels were fine. Maybe if you provide details of your setup I can duplicate it on my iPhone?

 

On 10/17/2022 at 10:17 PM, EddieTheTrooper said:

EDIT2: Here is the one review I've just found. And this guy got the same 2 conclusions as I after plugging the guitar for the first time. He hates default presets and he don't hear much difference between the amp models But this contrast with the video I posted above where actually I liked very much the sound I've heard.  So I'm wondering... can the guitar and it's pickups change the perception of how sounds this amp so much? I know that the guitar itself and it's pickups is important, everyone sounds different but I'm surprised that much...

 

You need to spend less time on YouTube. If I watched every YT link that people post saying "SEE?" I'd lose my mind.

I have 5 guitars - PRS CU24 (humbuckers), Ibanez ARX140 (solid mahogany DC w/SD Hot Rod humbuckers), HSS Strat, SSS Strat and an SS Tele.

They all sound radically different with my Cat, none of the presets sound great with all of them, and some amps sound better with some of them than others.

There are many players who say "I only use one amp because I always set my amps up to sound the same way." 

 

Here's my advice. Pick one of the Cat amps that seems to fit the type of music you play. In Manual Mode, play with the knobs until it sounds good.

Save and move on to another guitar. Repeat until you have presets for every guitar, regardless of the amps used. Maybe there's only one amp in there that you really like. Maybe one of your guitars will sound better with one amp and another will sound better with another amp. Don't expect one preset to sound great with every guitar. Also, it has been my observation that the more GAIN you use, the less differentiation you'll hear between guitars and pickups.

[BSByrdman]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:36 PM, EddieTheTrooper said:

I must admit that. I was totally wrong about this amp. These guys are playing only on FABRIC presets. It sounds great! And it's much different than my experience with my guitar. What strikes me most is that all those 6 modeled amps, when compered actually sound like totally different amps. They have much different characteristics. That's what I don't feel on my guitar. When playing on my Epi every amp simulation sounds like just the same amp only with different gain level and EQ settings. I will test it more. And Im waiting impatiently for my Charvell  to return form service to check this more

Looks like it's not the amp that I don't like. It's my beautiful Epi which make my sad :(

I know you may not want to do this, but you can always change pickups & wiring in the Epi.  I have an Epi 335 and it sounded only okay with the stock pickups.  I put two Gibson Classic 57's in it and it sounds incredible.  I also changed the wiring to Tone Man 50's style while I was in there.  Getting everything in the F-Holes was a PITA, but it was worth it and you wont have a difficult time doing it in a LP or similar style with the rear access hole.  Every Epi I have owned, I have changed the pickups and wiring, and I love Epi's too. 

[EddieTheTrooper]

On 10/18/2022 at 10:49 PM, BSByrdman said:

I know you may not want to do this, but you can always change pickups & wiring in the Epi.  I have an Epi 335 and it sounded only okay with the stock pickups.  I put two Gibson Classic 57's in it and it sounds incredible.  I also changed the wiring to Tone Man 50's style while I was in there.  Getting everything in the F-Holes was a PITA, but it was worth it and you wont have a difficult time doing it in a LP or similar style with the rear access hole.  Every Epi I have owned, I have changed the pickups and wiring, and I love Epi's too. 

I don't want to do that because I know they should be good - I heard them yesterday on a different amp played by much better guitarist and my Epi sound incredibly good. So I got one conclusion. It's not the amp, it's not the guitar. It is me who can't use full potential of both of them. But the more I play with the knobs on both amp and guitar the more i like both of them. Right now I'm also experimenting with height level of pickups. It has huge impact on a sound.

[EddieTheTrooper]

I've just discovered the power of boost knob in this amp. It not only "boost" sound level but also can change characteristic of sound and gain level. I was able to change my clean(with chorus effect) sound in to great crunchy with little overdrive sound which I always wanted. Only I wish I had 3 buttons on footswitch. One for preset, one for effect and one for boost

[BSByrdman]

On 10/21/2022 at 2:26 PM, EddieTheTrooper said:

I don't want to do that because I know they should be good - I heard them yesterday on a different amp played by much better guitarist and my Epi sound incredibly good. So I got one conclusion. It's not the amp, it's not the guitar. It is me who can't use full potential of both of them. But the more I play with the knobs on both amp and guitar the more i like both of them. Right now I'm also experimenting with height level of pickups. It has huge impact on a sound.

 

On 10/23/2022 at 8:30 AM, EddieTheTrooper said:

I've just discovered the power of boost knob in this amp. It not only "boost" sound level but also can change characteristic of sound and gain level. I was able to change my clean(with chorus effect) sound in to great crunchy with little overdrive sound which I always wanted. Only I wish I had 3 buttons on footswitch. One for preset, one for effect and one for boost

 

That's great you are starting to dial in the sound on it.  Sometimes it takes a while.  Also, pickup height adjustments are very often overlooked as well.  As far as the pickups go, I have always liked to tinker with stuff, so I don't changing things.  Also, there are a lot of great YT videos on how to set up intonation, string height, neck adjustments, etc. so dont be afraid to mess around with those adjustments too.    

 

BTW, I just bought the 2x12 yesterday.  The only one they had was the floor model at GC, so mine should be here in a few days.  I did not buy the foot pedal with mine.  I'm going to try to buy a multi button midi and see how that works.  I probably only need about 3-4 buttons, but definitely more than 2.

[EddieTheTrooper]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:00 PM, littlespaceman said:

This means that if you record a rhythm track on a looper, placed in the FX loop, and then want to add a lead track over the top, turning the built in delay on or off will also affect anything that has already been recorded to the looper. 

So if I understand correctly looper pedals like joyo R-06 OMB are useless with Cat?/

[Goldenwords]

On 10/16/2022 at 2:39 PM, EddieTheTrooper said:

Thnx, changing speaker emulation and mic improved the sound a little bit. In the future I will try different headphones. 
Another question. Where on android Cat Edit store saved presets? Can't find them anywhere 

EDIT: Never mind. I've found them

Could you help me? Where? And I can't load own presets...catayste edit doesn;t ask me about folder

 

[rd2rk]

ASSuming that the Android app is basically identical to the iOS app:

 

See the GUITAR icons in the upper left corner?

Click there and select what you want to do from the drop-down list.