Question about the dry, unprocessed track my POD is sending into Reaper

[357mag]

When I listen to the playback after recording both a wet and a dry track into Reaper, I mute the processed track and just listen to the clean, dry, unprocessed track. Then I compared it to the clean, unprocessed track that I earlier recorded using my POD HD Pro X.

 

It seems to my ears that the dry track recorded with my POD HD Pro X sounds a little brighter which I kinda like.

 

The dry, clean track that was recorded using my X3 sounds a bit darker and maybe a little more bassy.

 

And my ML Sound Labs amp sim does not sound the same on both dry, clean tracks.

 

How can I brighten up the dry, clean track a little?

 

Or should I try making a Tone 2 on my X3 going through like say a Plexi a little bright maybe and record that into the dry, clean track in my DAW?

 

 

[silverhead]

How exactly are you recording the unprocessed track in both cases? Are you using the X3 and Pro X as the audio interface in both cases and selecting the appropriate USB channel with their respective ASIO drivers as the Record Source/Input in Reaper? And, of course, you’re using the same guitar with same pickup selector switch position in both cases? Just checking the basics….

 

I would consider using an EQ plugin to brighten the track rather than recording a processed signal (which then requires A/D and D/A conversion along the way). Then feed the EQ’d signal into your amp sim.

[357mag]

No I'm not using both the X3 and the HD Pro X at the same time. I thought of the idea of adding an EQ on the dry track to brighten it up a little before adding my amp sim and it seemed to help. I'm getting a little better sound now.

[silverhead]

Glad to hear the sound is better.

 

I wasn’t asking about using the X3 and the Pro X simultaneously. Just asking whether you used their ability to tap the unprocessed signal directly from their physical inputs rather than sending the signal through an empty processing path before going to the DAW.

[357mag]

Can you explain how I would do that?

 

I remember you saying there is no need to make a Tone 2 because the X3's driver provides that directly. So when I was assigning inputs after arming two tracks, I chose Mix L for the wet track and I chose no. 8 Tone 2 dry for the dry track.

 

I've kinda wondered what is meant by Mix L.

[silverhead]

You are correct to use USB 8 to record the dry, unprocessed signal for Tone 2, assuming you have a Tone 2. From your comment above you may not have created a Tone 2. 
 

USB 7 sends the same dry, unprocessed signal for Tone 1. USB Sends 1 through 6 are different versions of the processed signals for Tone 1 and Tone 2. Not sure exactly what Mix L is but I suspect it’s the L channel of the blended Tone 1 and Tone 2 stereo mix. See manual page 8.2.

[357mag]

No I did not actually create a Tone 2 because you said in an earlier reply that it was not necessary because the X3 driver produces that automatically. So could I select as inputs 1. Mix L and then choose USB 7 also?

 

I am wondering if I would get a better end result for plug-in processing if I actually made a Tone 2 let's say using a low gain amp like a Plexi and set it up so it's practically clean sounding, and then using that as my Tone 2, instead of not making a Tone 2 and just use the automatic processing that the X3 driver provides.

[silverhead]

Sorry if I confused you in an earlier post. The X3 ASIO driver does not provide any automatic processing. Rather, it offers signal selection options.
 

The ASIO driver supports 8 different SEND options over the USB connection to a DAW such as Reaper. You MUST configure Reaper to use the X3 AND its ASIO driver in the audio device settings. Two of these options, USB 7 and USB 8, send the dry unprocessed signal that appears at the Inputs of Tone 1 and Tone 2 respectively. You don’t need to have any processing blocks in either Tone’s path but you DO need to specify the Input(s) for the Tone, e.g. Guitar. For instance if you set the Tone 2 Input to Guitar and connect a physical guitar to the Guitar input jack then USB 8 will send the input signal directly from the Guitar input jack (before it is processed by the X3 Tone) to your DAW where you can record it by arming the track and selecting USB 8 as the record input.

 

Same thing for Tone 1 and USB 7.

 

So, to record a dry and wet signal simultaneously you only need to use one Tone path on the X3. As an example, let’s use Tone 1. To begin, set the Input of the Tone to Guitar, assuming you are recording a guitar tone (see manual page 6.1). This ensures that the dry unprocessed signal that appears at the physical guitar input jack of the X3 will be sent directly to your DAW over USB 7. Now add whatever processing blocks you want in Tone 1. The stereo output of the wet processed Tone 1 will be sent to your DAW over USB 1+2 (1 is the L side of the stereo signal and R is the right side). Now arm two tracks for recording in Reaper. For the dry track select USB 7 as the record input, and for the wet track select USB 1+2 (this will appear as an option in Reaper if it is configured to use the X3 and it’s ASIO driver as the audio device).
 

I hope this makes things more clear.

[357mag]

Here is what I see in Reaper in Audio Inputs:

 

ASIO Driver: ASIO POD X3

Enable Inputs:

First: 1. Mix L

          2. Mix R

          3. Tone 1 L

          4. Tone 1 R

          5. Tone 2 L

           6. Tone 2 R

          7. Tone 1 Dry

           8. Tone 2 Dry

 

Last: 1. All 8 of these are identical to the above.

 

I do not see anything that would allow me to choose 1 + 2 together (but I'm recording in mono too if that makes any difference). I will choose 1. Mix L and 7. Tone 1 Dry. I will report back the results.

[357mag]

Then after I arm two tracks in Reaper the little meter with the inputs shows up. I will set track 1 which is the wet, processed track to Tone 1 Left. Then I will set track 2 which is the dry track to Tone 1 Dry. I'll see what happens.

 

If Mix L means a mixture of the wet, processed sound plus the dry, unprocessed sound I don't want that.

[357mag]

Well it worked. Maybe it's just my ear playing tricks on me but it seems that the sound quality of dry, unprocessed track that I laid down when I had my HD Pro X was a little better, than what my X3 is giving me.

 

But when I think about it, that makes little sense. I figure a dry is a dry is a dry.

 

I don't know why there would be a difference in quality between the two.

[silverhead]

Glad it worked. A couple of observations…..

 

When selecting the inputs for your Reaper track, make sure you select a stereo, not mono, input. All the options you are seeing are mono inputs, so II suspect the reason you are not seeing “1+2” as an input is that you have previously selected for a mono input, or have added a mono rather than stereo track.

 

You’re right that a dry is a dry is a dry. But they can still sound different because the signal undergoes an analog-to-digital (A/D) conversion as it passes from the analog guitar signal to the digital USB signal. Hence, the ‘dry’ signal is actually processed by the A/D converter of the specific device, X3 or POD Pro. That’s all the processing that happens to it but the quality difference in the converters between the devices can account for some tonal difference. Not saying that’s what’s happening in your case but it’s possible.

[357mag]

Yes I think I have always recorded in Mono. I don't know what advantages there would be for me to record in Stereo. If you can name some please post. 

[357mag]

If I double-tracked my electric guitar then I believe that would be considered stereo. But otherwise it's considered mono if I'm not mistaken.

[silverhead]

The dry tone is mono, of course. I’m talking about the processed tone which could include some stereo FX in the X3.

[357mag]

There is another way I could record a dry track into Reaper. I have a Focusrite Scarlett interface. I have a feeling that has good converters in it. But the problem is I would be playing and listening to a completely dry and unprocessed guitar sound which might be tough for me to play the whole song that way.

[357mag]

Well I just watched a video on recording your guitar into a DAW and the person doing the demonstration said if you don't want to listen to all that dry, boring guitar sound while you are recording the dry track, you can just load an amp sim onto the track and that way you will still be recording the guitar dry, but in your headphones you will be hearing your guitar with amp distortion.

 

 

[silverhead]

On 12/31/2022 at 1:49 AM, 357mag said:

Well I just watched a video on recording your guitar into a DAW and the person doing the demonstration said if you don't want to listen to all that dry, boring guitar sound while you are recording the dry track, you can just load an amp sim onto the track and that way you will still be recording the guitar dry, but in your headphones you will be hearing your guitar with amp distortion.

 

 

Yes, you can do that. But watch out for latency. Depending on the DAW, the computer’s resources, and the amp sim there can be a noticeable delay between the dry signal being recorded and the sound of the sim in your headphones. You will tend to adjust your playing so that the processed track you hear is in sync/tempo with the backing tracks, which means the recorded dry track is slightly out of sync. Not a big problem though as you can generally ‘nudge’ the recorded track appropriately to re-sync it if required.