Controlling a Catalyst 100 with a Helix LT - how best to?

[steve_marsden1]

Hi I have a few questions regards how to control the Catalyst amp via a Helix LT, hopefully the following makes some sense and someone can help.
 

I have a bunch of presets with latest 3.5 cabs that work well for me as they are and I wish to play these through the Catalyst as a powered speaker and believe that I have managed this via the 4 cable method thanks to a Jason Sadites vid on YouTube, where he recommends going out from Helix on Send 1 and return back on Return 2, I know there’s another method but I think this suits my patches better involving less changes to them, seems to work fine, I just pick n choose which sound best to my untrained ear with Helix cabs still in chain and which sound better with them bypassed. The slightly puzzling thing is that I’m not adding any send/return blocks on these presets in Helix and it seems to be working out that I am just wanting to use the presets into the Catalysts speaker, bypassing the Catalyst amp and settings, I hope! Not sure if I might be missing something here? So any advice appreciated if you think I’m doing something wrong.

 

My other reason for connecting the 2 is that I also want to access via the Helix the 12 patches that you can save on the Catalyst which I have managed via connection of a midi cable between the two and watching someone’s YouTube tutorial, one of the learn with Line6 vids. So I think I’m getting there on it.

 

My other question however is about whether there’s a simpler way to do all this? The Helix manual suggests I could connect and control channel selection via the EXT AMP jack on back of the Helix LT to an input on an amp and I have read somewhere that this is a simpler method. But the Helix manual warns to check that the amp utilises a short-to-sleeve footswitch input - I’d assume the Catalyst has this but I can’t find anything to confirm for sure, is this just an alternative techie way of referring to a 1/4 jack? Anyone know?

 

About a year in from the Catalyst launch and it seems that Line6 haven’t really covered how to use it with the Helix that well or maybe I’m missing the right posts or videoed. Again, any advice anyone can give is much appreciated. 

[rd2rk]

The attached Preset does it all, via Snapshots.

 

The first 6 Snapshots select the six A channels.

You COULD try using the amp switching features to toggle the A/B channels and the Cat's FX or Boost.

I found it unacceptably noisy and opted for the LFS2 footswitch.

It also wastes 2 of the Helix footswitches that I'd rather use for Helix FX.

If you MUST use the Helix footswitches for EVERYTHING, and you don't mind the excessive switching noise, set 2 switches to Ext Amp, LATCHING, one set to TIP and one to RING. TIP controls A/B, Ring is Boost or FX depending on how the Cat is set.

I set up the preset to use the first two switches for that. NOTE that the LED is LIT for Channel A, OFF for Channel B.

Likewise, the BOOST LED is ON when the Boost is OFF and OFF when it's ON.

VERY annoying, another reason I prefer the LFS2.

 

Snapshot 7 is empty. In my usage that's where the ToneX pedal goes.

You COULD use it for a second Helix amp.

 

Snapshot 8 bypasses the FX Loop and activates a Helix amp. IOW - your Cat's Preamp is out of the signal chain, replaced with a Helix amp.

Be aware that unless you physically flip the Fx Loop switch on the amp the Helix amp could be VERY LOUD. Turn down it's (the Helix amp's) Channel Volume to compensate.

 

FWIW - JS's method for using the FX Loops is useful if you're using an amp whose FX loop is noisy.

The Catalyst FX Loop is NOT noisy. Using two FX Loops like that also wastes your second FX Loop, the LT only has two.

Using a single FX Loop works fine. The preset uses FX Loop 1.

 

The FS labeled "Lead Boost" adds a 5db Clean Boost at the Output Block. Since it's at the end of the signal chain it does not affect tone, just makes it all LOUDER.

 

Almost forgot - I have the Catalyst set to use MIDI Channel 3.

 

You COULD change every MIDI command in the preset, but I advise that you just set the Catalyst to MIDI Channel 3.

 

I have found that sometimes I'll fire everything up and the Catalyst won't respond to MIDI.

If that happens, MANUALLY (with the Preset KNOB on the Helix) switch presets, pause a moment, then switch back.

That usually fixes it.

 

If you study what's happening with the Snapshots you'll see that it's pretty simple. The Instant Commands send PC# 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11 to call the A Channel of each Catalyst Bank. The second IC makes sure that the FX Loop is active.

 

The reason that L6 hasn't devoted a bunch of resources to a document that attempts to explain how all of their devices can be used together is that everybody wants something special for THEIR needs. It's a fool's errand. There're other ways to do everyting I've described, but you wanted simple, and I'm not an L6 employee with infinite paid hours to describe every possible scenario and the pros/cons of each. If you read the manuals for your devices, google "Basic MIDI" and spend some time with it (ask specific questions here if you need to, as you have) it will become apparent how it all works. Just don't expect an "Idiot's Guide to every possible use of Helix with W and X and Y and Z and...". Helix allows for near infinite possibilities, and that comes with lots of complexities.

steve_marsden1.hlx

[steve_marsden1]

Wow, many thanks for that, I’ll check out later today.
 

That is the problem and power of Helix, it can do so much in so many ways that if like me you’re not a savvy guitar tech and also like me don’t always have the required patience, you can easily end up not fully understanding what you’re doing and then end up wondering if you’ve gone the right way!

But the real power lies within this community, without which many of us may well have given up on this superb piece of kit. Much respect to those who help us lesser users out.

 

One day I’ll get this thing and might even be able to share some knowledge myself eh!

[silverhead]

On 3/14/2023 at 5:03 AM, steve_marsden1 said:

…

 

One day I’ll get this thing and might even be able to share some knowledge myself eh!

Ha! Your user profile Location says UK but finishing your sentence with ‘eh’ tells me you may be a fellow Canuck at heart.

 

I got my first Line 6 product - POD X3 Live - in 2009. I was a complete newbie to the digital modeling world and spent a lot of time asking questions here and learning about the device in depth. After a while I found myself able to do what you describe : sharing knowledge with others. And …. 14 years later I’m still learning something new almost every day here. 
 

(And I do actually have a life outside of this space….. ;-) )

[steve_marsden1]

@silverhead afraid I’m no Canuck, I guess you might be sensing the Celt in me, I just like to use chatty and more expressive language now n again!

 

You’re dead right regards the learning trip we’re all on, although I figure you are way further down that road than me from posts I’ve seen, we’re all in this together though… eh!

 

@rd2rk many thanks for the preset, I never thought to do via snapshot mode but was just getting to grips with midi; snaps though is effectively the way most of my presets are setup, with 4 presets on top row each with 4 snaps on bottom row, occasionally I drop into mode to st to individual pedal blocks or hit the up/down footswitches to briefly reveal the top set of snaps wen there’s more than 4 in a patch to select but thats sometimes too brief for me and ends up confusing me!
Anyway I managed to have a quick dabble the other night and got it working when switching from return 2 to 1, works a treat and with the Helix amp snap you added coming on pretty strong, in a good way, it gives me a very good template to build on. Looking forward to dabbling a bit more at the weekend. If I get somewhere that might be useful for others I’ll share too. Cheers

[tonedeaf2945]

I just have a few questions to add to this, and please excuse my ignorance on how your snapshots work (they do sound great tho) and my knowledge of the Helix workings, I'm just getting into editing presets and learning how to use this beast.  

 

Are you connecting the helix and Catalyst with a midi cable?  you stated changing the Catalyst to Midi channel 3.

I assume I need to use the Catalyst software and set up the 12 banks for the amps I want in each particular bank and channel?

Are your presets set up for 4cbm?  I use the basic 4cbm 

In the presets what is the A/B function, I can see it changing channels but how is it programmed/assigned for that function, I have been playing around and just do not see it (I am just getting started in using HX Edit for creating/editing patches instead of directly on the helix, so I may find it after writing this)

 

Thank you in advance for any help, this thread was perfect timing as I didn't know exactly how to word what I was trying to accomplish with the Helix and Catalyst.  Basically I'm really stubborn and I love my helix presets and I love some of the catalyst amps by themselves and want to use them both.  

 

 

[rd2rk]

On 3/17/2023 at 2:41 PM, tonedeaf2945 said:

Are you connecting the helix and Catalyst with a midi cable?

 

Yes.

 

On 3/17/2023 at 2:41 PM, tonedeaf2945 said:

I assume I need to use the Catalyst software and set up the 12 banks for the amps I want in each particular bank and channel?

 

Not necessarily, unless you need to edit deep parameters like amp BIAS, Delay Time, Reverb Predelay etc

 

On 3/17/2023 at 2:41 PM, tonedeaf2945 said:

Are your presets set up for 4cbm?

 

Yes. Note the FX Loop Block.

 

On 3/17/2023 at 2:41 PM, tonedeaf2945 said:

In the presets what is the A/B function, I can see it changing channels but how is it programmed/assigned for that function, I have been playing around and just do not see it

 

 

With a 1/4" TRS Cable connected between the Ext Amp Jack and the Catalyst FS Input:

 

The "Tip" controls Channel Switching, so the "A/B" FS is set to Ext Amp>TIP

The "Ring" controls Boost/FX, so the "Boost or FX" FS is set to Ext Amp>RING

 

The Ext Amp Out/Catalyst FS Input are analog - a physical circuit within the Catalyst is toggled OPEN/CLOSED.