FX Loop

[d_sic3]

Hi.. Just need some advise on the stereo fx loop.

 

I utilized all the ins and outs of both HX FX and Stomp (see routing below) so I will be able to put effects, delay and reverb, before and after the amps/cabs.  I also have the studio compressor and parametric eq in the stomp at the end of my chain before going to the output.  I use dual amps and cabs (IR) also.

 

I know this will get me the latency but I am okay with that.  If there is another option to avoid this with the option to have delay/reverb before the amp, I'd go for it - but not to the point of buying an LT :) 

 

My routing below:

Guitar > Comp > Overdrives > Vol Pedal > HX FX Input left > HX FX Send (send 1&2) > Stomp Input (L&R) > Stomp Send (stereo, trs cable split to two ts) > HX FX Return (return 1&2) > HX FX Out (L&R) > Stomp Return (L&R)> Stomp Out (L&R) > Mixer

 

Here are my questions:

1) I want to know if I am using the fx loop properly or not as I have some issues with the delay.  Using the stereo fx loop L/R doesn't get me a ping pong on my studio speakers.  The repeat stays on one speaker.  Am I missing something?

 

2) Do I need to use line level on the ins and outs of both stomp and HX FX?

 

I can also send my patches here if need be. 

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Schmalle]

Post the Stomp's preset, please.

[d_sic3]

On 7/17/2023 at 7:14 PM, Schmalle said:

Post the Stomp's preset, please.

Thanks for your reply.  Attached the stomp and hxfx presets.

And some screenshots on how I set it up.

 

HX Stomp

 

 

 

 

Fierce.hlx

 

DO.hlx

[d_sic3]

I tried to play around with the FX loop in the HXFX and tried this setup (see attached).  I can now hear the ping pong on the left and right speakers.

But it would cost me another block than the previous FX Lopp L/R which is only one block.

Stereo.hlx

[Schmalle]

There are hidden split / mixer blocks panning path A/B hard left /right.

Put one of the blocks to path B (to make the mixer appear), reset the bock's pan parameters to center and put the block back to path A.

Try if it still happens after doing this.

[datacommando]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:19 AM, d_sic3 said:

Attached the stomp and hxfx presets.

Hi,

 

As noted by @Schmalle in the above post- there is a split point right at the beginning of the signal flow in the “Fierce” preset.

 

It isn’t obvious from your screenshots of HX Edit, but it shows up in this on-line preset viewer:

https://dbagchee.github.io/helix-preset-viewer/

 

Hope this helps/makes sense.

 

EDIT:

Another thing that I notice about the Ping Pong delay is that you have it set to a dotted 1/8th note with a scaling factor of 50%. You may want to use that setting, but it also means that the delay offset for the repeat will be at half the main time you have set.

For example: at 120BPM - 1/8note = 250ms, 50% scale gives 1/16th note = 125ms.

Edited July 18, 2023 by datacommando
Added note

[d_sic3]

Thank you @Schmalle.  Unfortunately, I will be able to hear this when I get home. 

Forgot to bring cables and the headphone adaptor.  I'll let you know how this goes.

Is my hx stomp all okay?

 

Thank you as well @datacommando for the detailed explanation.

 

[d_sic3]

By the way, do I need to set all the outputs/inputs to line level since I am connecting both units?  I also go direct to mixer.

[Schmalle]

On 7/18/2023 at 3:01 PM, d_sic3 said:

By the way, do I need to set all the outputs/inputs to line level since I am connecting both units?  I also go direct to mixer.

No, I'd keep everything Inst level besides the HXFX output. This way you have more headroom to boost the amps with the HXFX drive.

[d_sic3]

On 7/18/2023 at 10:11 PM, Schmalle said:

No, I'd keep everything Inst level besides the HXFX output. This way you have more headroom to boost the amps with the HXFX drive.

The HXFX output goes to the return of the stomp.  So it won't affect the amps in the stomp.  It will only affect the Dyn and Mod.

It is the HXFX send that goes to the input of the stomp, before the amps.  So I guess, that is what I should be setting to LINE?

 

My apologies, I've updated another "DO" stomp patch as I noticed there was no FX Loop block but an EQ instead.

I also uploaded a new stomp photo to show the correct block used.  Will this change any of the advised you guys have given?

 

So you won't have to scroll up and down, I'm uploading the image below:

[Schmalle]

On 7/18/2023 at 4:56 PM, d_sic3 said:

The HXFX output goes to the return of the stomp.  So it won't affect the amps in the stomp.  It will only affect the Dyn and Mod.

It is the HXFX send that goes to the input of the stomp, before the amps.  So I guess, that is what I should be setting to LINE?

 

My apologies, I've updated another "DO" stomp patch as I noticed there was no FX Loop block but an EQ instead.

I also uploaded a new stomp photo to show the correct block used.  Will this change any of the advised you guys have given?

 

So you won't have to scroll up and down, I'm uploading the image below:

[...]

Set everything to Inst level for simplicity and forget about it. That'll work fine.

 

What matters is to set ALL send/returns on both units to the same setting (Inst or Line) - so the the levels don't jump.

The return impedance changes with switching between Line and Inst - this doesn't matter for this application.

Whether you go to mixer with Line or Inst level doesn't really matter. Mixers can usually handle both levels.

 

One remark about hiss / noise that might appear:

I think as long as you use the amps relatively clean / edge of breakup the hiss introduced by the 4 AD/DA conversions will probably be ok.

If you'd ever want / need to optimize for simplicity, noise and latency: consider Guitar -> HxStomp (pre Fx + Amps+IR) -> HxFx (PostFx) -> Mixer.

 

Have fun!

[d_sic3]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:24 AM, Schmalle said:

Set everything to Inst level for simplicity and forget about it. That'll work fine.

 

What matters is to set ALL send/returns on both units to the same setting (Inst or Line) - so the the levels don't jump.

The return impedance changes with switching between Line and Inst - this doesn't matter for this application.

Whether you go to mixer with Line or Inst level doesn't really matter. Mixers can usually handle both levels.

 

One remark about hiss / noise that might appear:

I think as long as you use the amps relatively clean / edge of breakup the hiss introduced by the 4 AD/DA conversions will probably be ok.

If you'd ever want / need to optimize for simplicity, noise and latency: consider Guitar -> HxStomp (pre Fx + Amps+IR) -> HxFx (PostFx) -> Mixer.

 

Have fun!

 

The trick worked.  The ping pong delay is now heard both ears.  Thank you!

Can you share with me the reason for this issue?  So in the future I know what to do.

 

Thanks for the tip on the send/return.

 

Your advise on the hiss/noise explained why I got the feedback when I changed the amp to archetype...

The feedback won't go away unless the gain is pretty low.

I may have to consider the routing you suggested, only if I can add delays and reverb together with dual amps + IR in the stomp without the DSP limit - remains to be seen.

 

Again, thank you for your help.

[Schmalle]

On 7/19/2023 at 8:41 AM, d_sic3 said:

Can you share with me the reason for this issue?  So in the future I know what to do.

Your "DO" patch shows how splitting / merging in stereo with Path A and B works. The "Fierce" patch had the same settings for the split and merge blocks without actually using Path B for the right channel. This can lead to unexpected behavior and resetting the the blocks solves it.

 

On 7/19/2023 at 8:41 AM, d_sic3 said:

Your advise on the hiss/noise explained why I got the feedback when I changed the amp to archetype...

The feedback won't go away unless the gain is pretty low.

I was refering to static noise issues only. With hiss I mean the noise that is always present (unless the noise gate chops it off). Feedback is related to higher volume / gain or to "whisteling" pickups when the guitar is on. Different things.

[d_sic3]

On 7/19/2023 at 3:56 PM, Schmalle said:

Your "DO" patch shows how splitting / merging in stereo with Path A and B works. The "Fierce" patch had the same settings for the split and merge blocks without actually using Path B for the right channel. This can lead to unexpected behavior and resetting the the blocks solves it.

Thank for clarifying.

 

On 7/19/2023 at 3:56 PM, Schmalle said:

I was refering to static noise issues only. With hiss I mean the noise that is always present (unless the noise gate chops it off). Feedback is related to higher volume / gain or to "whisteling" pickups when the guitar is on. Different things.

Gotcha.  I don't have any of that.  Only feedback when using high gain amp.  And only when I plug it in an amp (some venue don't have any direct setup).