HELP! Helix sounds good w/o cab sim through an amp, but when I go into my interface and use headphones it sounds bad

[jcksnmusic]

Ok so with the presets I am using I have it split where I have my signal run two ways, one out to the 1/4 in and running into the effects loop of an amp, effectively making the amp a cab, and the other running through a cab sim out of xlr and into an interface. When I listen through my amp the presets sound good but when I turn the amp off and try to use headphones, I get a really crappy low end that almost sounds like its overloading and the sound breaks up a bit and leaves me with a crunchy mess. 

I am fully aware that I my just be bad at building presets so I have attached my main preset to this post if anyone wants to look at it and tear it apart

The main fix I have found for now is throwing a horizon drive infront of the amp block, which seems to tighten the sound and take some of the low end off, but then it sounds super bright and thin through the amp. I get that I might need to just have different presets for different situations, but if anyone has any idea on how to make this better it would be great because one of my goals for the helix was to be able to use it at gigs running out of both outputs, xlr to FOH and 1/4 to an amp for stage volume

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

 

 

For those wondering I am using a UA Volt 2 interface and Beyredynamic DT 990 pros (250 OHMS)

Marshall_W_ Cab.hlx

[Schmalle]

I think I can guide you to a place where the direct signal is a good representation of what you're hearing with the amp.

This might become a longer process because there are lots of variables involved. I'm reluctant to write extensive posts - so let's go through the matter one step at a time.

 

First step - narrowing down what you are hearing with your amp:

Quote

[...]running into the effects loop of an amp, effectively making the amp a cab[...]

What amp do you use "as a cab"?

Does it sit on the floor?

Do you tilt it at an angle?

What's your listening position / angle with respect to the amp?

If it has presence and depth controls: how do you set them?

[codamedia]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:53 PM, jcksnmusic said:

When I listen through my amp the presets sound good but when I turn the amp off and try to use headphones, I get a really crappy low end that almost sounds like its overloading and the sound breaks up a bit and leaves me with a crunchy mess.

 

The first question is.... are you sure the headphones are set to hear the "CAB SIM" signal chain? The live amp is obviously out of the question, so the cab sim is critical.

 

If you are 100% certain that it is... don't try fixing it with more effects, you already know the main difference is in the cabinet. Experiment with various cab/speaker/mic/placement options until you get as close to your live amp sound as possible. 

 

Never underestimate the impact cab/speaker/mic/position has on the overall tone of the sound.

[jcksnmusic]

On 8/13/2023 at 6:35 AM, Schmalle said:

I think I can guide you to a place where the direct signal is a good representation of what you're hearing with the amp.

This might become a longer process because there are lots of variables involved. I'm reluctant to write extensive posts - so let's go through the matter one step at a time.

 

First step - narrowing down what you are hearing with your amp:

What amp do you use "as a cab"?

Does it sit on the floor?

Do you tilt it at an angle?

What's your listening position / angle with respect to the amp?

If it has presence and depth controls: how do you set them?

1 - my amp situation is a couple amps, one is a boss katana and the other is a quilter aviator, both just sitting on top of each other

and as for the settings on the amp I am bypassing them and just using them as a speaker by running through just the power am section of them

[Schmalle]

The DT880 is far from being neutral - see DT880 frequency response. Compare them to other headphones or studio monitors to get a feel of how they color the sound.

 

Although you're using a reverb in the patch - when using headphones try adding a dynamic ambience. Otherwise it's like listening to a speaker in a dead room - it's too direct and irritating.

 

You're right about the Katana's controls not affecting the power amp, it's neutral, one thing less to worry about.

 

The Katana is an open back combo with a quite bright speaker. The cab choice you made in the patch is a 4x12 T75. It's great but not bright and has much thicker bass response (hence your 150Hz low cut?!).

I like the speaker choice generally. My suggestion: try bring it closer to the Katana by using a parametric eq (in front or after the cab):

80Hz, 0.3q, -2.5dB, 2kHz, 0.7q, 0dB, 4kHz, 7.2q, +2dB.

This is just an educated guess of a setting that I did by ear. I should lower the boominess and add an edge in the upper mids. Experiment with the values!

 

All my comments ignore the Aviator's part in the sound - I don't know it and it would take too long to investigate.

 

Lastly: when you lift an amp from the floor you loose bottom end. That is a thing to consider as part of the equation.

[jcksnmusic]

On 8/13/2023 at 2:58 PM, Schmalle said:

The DT880 is far from being neutral - see DT880 frequency response. Compare them to other headphones or studio monitors to get a feel of how they color the sound.

 

Although you're using a reverb in the patch - when using headphones try adding a dynamic ambience. Otherwise it's like listening to a speaker in a dead room - it's too direct and irritating.

 

You're right about the Katana's controls not affecting the power amp, it's neutral, one thing less to worry about.

 

The Katana is an open back combo with a quite bright speaker. The cab choice you made in the patch is a 4x12 T75. It's great but not bright and has much thicker bass response (hence your 150Hz low cut?!).

I like the speaker choice generally. My suggestion: try bring it closer to the Katana by using a parametric eq (in front or after the cab):

80Hz, 0.3q, -2.5dB, 2kHz, 0.7q, 0dB, 4kHz, 7.2q, +2dB.

This is just an educated guess of a setting that I did by ear. I should lower the boominess and add an edge in the upper mids. Experiment with the values!

 

All my comments ignore the Aviator's part in the sound - I don't know it and it would take too long to investigate.

 

Lastly: when you lift an amp from the floor you loose bottom end. That is a thing to consider as part of the equation.

Thank you!

the reverb thing very much helped :)