Applied low/hi cut for all presets --> FOH fine with remaining bandwidth?

[Elephantstomp]

Hello,

 

I applied a low cut 80Hz and hi cut 6,8 - 7,5 kHz for gain, 12kHz for clean (all 12dB slope) to my presets.

Sounds sweet at gigs, home and IEM. No FOH guy ever complained, but I don´t know how experienced they were.

Gigs were small and big, so I guess it was fine with those cuts.

Anyways, I like to ask YOU if you think I narrowed the bandwidth too much for soundguys?

I guess it should be fine...

 

Thanks!

[theElevators]

I personally let the sound guys scoop out all the frequencies as they need.  It's better to have it there than not, that's my philosophy.  Sometimes the EQ will need to change to better suit a specific venue.  If you remove frequencies you cannot then really bring them back when you need to, right?

 

I got my guitar sound to a point where in mixing monitors it sounds good at home.  I also invited a sound guy, who checked with the frequency spectrum analyzer (some kind of an EQ app) to say that the sound is good, and can be worked with.  Other than that, I just use my own ears.  Even still, the only time you can be sure that all the sounds are good is when you do a sound-check at the venue.  Sometimes certain snapshots can have problematic frequencies due to the effects that you use.  That's why all the big bands rehearse in big spaces.  They rent out theaters/warehouses for days to really test out the equipment. 

 

Mixing monitors are great.  For example, I recently discovered that some of my sounds have really noticeable low-end hum (caused by an amp being run through a compressor and amplifying the "ripple").  There is absolutely no way I would have been able to hear it if I didn't have the mixing monitors.  I would have only discovered it during a sound check and would have been faced with having to fix that noise that could potentially have been really problematic live. 

 

I rarely use the EQ to shape my sound with 3 exceptions:

1. fake acoustic guitar (not the sim), where I take the guitar sound, boost it and remove several parasitic frequencies including the bottom ones.

2. solo boost, where I boost 2K to taste.

 

and then

3. very rarely Global EQ, when that is needed for the stage volume. 

 

Other than that, I use the tone controls of the virtual amps to make sure my sound doesn't have that "Metallica" low-end, and no extreme highs that are just fizz/hissing. 

 

In terms of applying EQ to my signal, I do have a Global EQ that I sometimes need to use for my stage volume (un-mic'ed).  Some venues are not big enough, and the amp on stage can negatively affect the overall mix.  In those situations, I use the Global EQ, and the sound guy can guide me through it.  I don't like it!  but sometimes it needs to be done.

 

I'm no mixing expert, but a quick search gave me guidance how to EQ guitar when mixing records.  The same principle should be applied when running guitar live as well.  You don't need boomy lows that just conflict with the bass drum / bass. 

https://ekmixmaster.com/how-to-equalize-distorted-electric-guitar.html

[Elephantstomp]

I came up with those cut offs over time after listening to our rehearsal and live recordings (of course I read about this topic as well).

As a highly wanted side effect this optimized my IEM guitar sound as well.

It may be better to leave the whole bandwidth to the sound guy for sculpting, but then I would have to give up the benefits to ME.

So far, as your link for EQ tips confirms, I am within the ball park (although this was for recording), right?

[trhx]

On 10/8/2024 at 8:54 AM, Elephantstomp said:

I came up with those cut offs over time after listening to our rehearsal and live recordings (of course I read about this topic as well).

As a highly wanted side effect this optimized my IEM guitar sound as well.

It may be better to leave the whole bandwidth to the sound guy for sculpting, but then I would have to give up the benefits to ME.

So far, as your link for EQ tips confirms, I am within the ball park (although this was for recording), right?

If you're going direct to PA, you can leave the EQ mostly unaffected going out of the XLRs and have a path splitting off at the end of your chain that goes to your 1/4" outs (then to amp or IEM rig), then put an EQ on that path to do whatever you want without hamstringing the sound guy.

[Elephantstomp]

Yes, this would be a nice solution, but I´ve got no blocks left on my HX-Stomp.

Should have mentioned this.

Thanks!

[DunedinDragon]

First and foremost, the vast majority of my EQ comes from selecting and accurately configuring my cabinet, mic and mic positions on the new Helix cabs.  The only EQ I ever apply is with a final EQ on the patch at the end of the signal chain if I need to take a little bit off of the highest portion of the frequency spectrum, but that's usually pretty minor like a high cut, but that's typically very slight.  EQ'ing too much, especially when done in isolation from the rest of the instruments in the band, buries the guitar requiring you to overuse volume to be heard in the mix.

 

If you want a real eye opener on how to appropriately EQ something, get yourself a copy of iZotope's Neutron 4 Elements and allow it to professionally and automatically adjust the EQ on all the individual various instruments being used in your song.  You'll be shocked at how each instrument can be heard within the arrangement even if it's at a lower volume than some of the other instruments creating a much more professional sounding mix.

[amsdenj]

Helix cab models and IRs typically model close mic'd speaker cabinets. What the mic is hearing is very different than what you would hear in the room because you don't have your ear right up next to the middle of the speaker cone. At least let's hope not! In the studio, this was the only option for capturing a guitar amp and works well because it gives the mix engineer lots of additional frequencies they can play with to fit the guitar in the mix. This almost always requires significant high and low cuts for focus the guitar in the mids and keep it out of the way of other tracks. The same is true with live mixing in FOH, but is often much more difficult to control. So if you give the FOH engineer this wider frequency range, then they have the flexibility to adjust as needed to fit in the mix and address room characteristics. But this puts additional responsibility on the FOH engineer and they often have a lot of other things to deal with. So you might want to give the FOH mix what you think is your best tone so if they do nothing with the EQ, it will sound ok. Different situations may call for different approaches.

[Elephantstomp]

On 10/18/2024 at 8:44 AM, DunedinDragon said:

First and foremost, the vast majority of my EQ comes from selecting and accurately configuring my cabinet, mic and mic positions on the new Helix cabs.  The only EQ I ever apply is with a final EQ on the patch at the end of the signal chain if I need to take a little bit off of the highest portion of the frequency spectrum, but that's usually pretty minor like a high cut, but that's typically very slight.  EQ'ing too much, especially when done in isolation from the rest of the instruments in the band, buries the guitar requiring you to overuse volume to be heard in the mix.

 

If you want a real eye opener on how to appropriately EQ something, get yourself a copy of iZotope's Neutron 4 Elements and allow it to professionally and automatically adjust the EQ on all the individual various instruments being used in your song.  You'll be shocked at how each instrument can be heard within the arrangement even if it's at a lower volume than some of the other instruments creating a much more professional sounding mix.

Did all you suggested in §1.

Regarding §2: 100% for recording/mixing. For live surely similar, but will leave it to the FOH.

 

[Elephantstomp]

On 10/18/2024 at 3:30 PM, amsdenj said:

Helix cab models and IRs typically model close mic'd speaker cabinets. What the mic is hearing is very different than what you would hear in the room because you don't have your ear right up next to the middle of the speaker cone. At least let's hope not! In the studio, this was the only option for capturing a guitar amp and works well because it gives the mix engineer lots of additional frequencies they can play with to fit the guitar in the mix. This almost always requires significant high and low cuts for focus the guitar in the mids and keep it out of the way of other tracks. The same is true with live mixing in FOH, but is often much more difficult to control. So if you give the FOH engineer this wider frequency range, then they have the flexibility to adjust as needed to fit in the mix and address room characteristics. But this puts additional responsibility on the FOH engineer and they often have a lot of other things to deal with. So you might want to give the FOH mix what you think is your best tone so if they do nothing with the EQ, it will sound ok. Different situations may call for different approaches.

Ok, so far I did all I can for a sound that´s good to me. So I will continue to live in peace.