Split VDI > Mags and Variax [audio noodles]

[ColonelForbin]

Finally got to spend some time with my guitars over this long weekend! Spent the bulk of my time trying out different versions of the ideas I've been carrying on about here, in terms of dual inputs/ split signal paths using a JTV, and also sorting how to fit that many pedals on on 2' long pedaltrain. Bought a George L's patch cable kit, once the last of the pedals arrive, I will have to sort out exactly where these pedals need to go! Here's what it looks like (in a few variations) as of now:

 

pedalboard pic1

pedalboard pic2

pedalboard pic3

HD500 in Tarcase

 

I stumbled upon an interesting use of the technology, and recorded some rambling, distracted audio samples. These are un-processed mono XLR out from the DT25, converted to stereo, and saved down to .mp3:

 

JTV-HD500-analog-pedals-DT25_Audio Tests

 

The signal path went something like this:

 

JTV59 > vdi > hd500 > input 1 = variax, input 2 = variax mags

 

-input1 (variax) set mostly to acoustic JTV models.

-input2 (mags) on amp 'B', FX send to/from analog pedalboard.

 

-at various points moving pedals around, for a time had a few different pedals in the DT25 effects loop to varying degrees of success. It seems the noise gate definitely wants to be in the amp's fx loop, rather than after the first run of analog pedals.

 

Liking the Keeley 'Bootlegger' drive pedal, still sorting how to set it to play best with amp models set with some grit. It's a tube-screamer-esque tone. Though it's germanium, not sure if it's giving me any weirdness from that. Noise gate definitely works hard when I crank that thing too much! Used in this sloppy blues clip. Ended up messing about with the drive pedal and autowah together, some snappy stuff. Still a sloppy mess! I'll say it so no one else has to: I need to spend more time *practicing* my guitar playing, a little less time messing about with sounds and such. Dialing in the rig is time consuming, and my chops are a mess (what chops?) lol. :)

 

Anyway, post-mixer, ran those two merged signals into a delay, particle verb and hall verb. Toggled on/off with FS 5,6,7. Love the particle verb. Makes it sound like there is a rain stick in the mix with my guitar! Takes a lot of DSP though..

 

Discovered some random interesting things, like using any of the 12 string acoustic guitar models with the mag side also up. Creates a very groovy effect. Some of that in this clip. Almost sounds like steel drums! Wacky weirdness, definitely carnival vibed. I will need to experiment some more with using alternate virtual capo settings, like octave up or down.

 

Also found using stuff like the reso sitar or banjo with the mags up on the side channel also makes for some interesting sounds. This clip is just loop for the first 2:00 or so, I start noodling around 2:10, and some of that sitar (or banjo?) +mags happens around 3:45 to end of track. Very loose noodling, was spending more time spinning dials and moving pedals and cables around!

 

A side note to that, assigning the two EXP pedals to control amp volumes was making me *crazy*. It doesn't register that choice visually after you leave that amp page, like as in, to go set the other amp to use the other EXP pedal. It always defaults back to "drive" in the visual screen, though it does keep the actual function of the setting - until you change up the amp model.

 

I ended up just using two volume pedals, one for each amp path, and only used the analog wah pedal. Which was a pleasant surprise, the thing is loaded with cool sounds - the auto wahs and filters were all quite good, so that was a nice treat. Got a little funky at a few different spots in this 'down on the corner' clip, and this 'scarlet begonia' intro chords clip

 

Using the two EXP pedals as volumes for each amp allowed me to create variations of both on or one on / other off. Made some loopers using 'acoustic' models for rhy part loop, then switched up to the mags for noodling and sound fx muddling around with.

 

I also confunded myself briefly with the Decimator noise gate in the FX loop of the amp - since it tracks the direct input from the guitar, it caused issues with the looper. ( I used the 1/4" out from the JTV for noise gate guitar in, and then ran the actual noise gate effect on the DT25 effects loop) I would start the loop, and all was well, until I stopped playing, then it almost totally killed the looper volume until I backed the noise gate way off. I think I will need to do something like have it track the 1/4" out from the HD500 or something different when I use the looper. But for "live" use, I won't be using the looper anyway, but it confused me there for a few takes!

 

Anyway, that's what I got for now. Still no clue if using the buffer pedal was a good or bad or even need item, and if so, not certain whether it should be placed before or after the wah, etc.

 

At one point I had one of the Keeley 4-knob comps in the DT25 effects loop, with the chorus pedal, the clean boost, and the noise gate. I also tried moving the clean boost and compressor back into the main signal chain, tried them in various positions around the primary distortion pedal. Not sure the extra Keeley will stay in the rig; it does some strange things depending on what is going through it, and definitely creates a fair amount of hiss / noise when I juice it. Will have to revisit the pedal sequence and such, sort out which pedals want to be where.

 

The clean boost has two modes, one is a standard modern 'clean boost', the other side of the circuit is a germanium treble booster type thing; which definitely had issues depending on where it was placed. I ended up shifting the front few pedals around alot, and settled on something like this:

 

HD500 effects send > Keeley comp1 > Wahoo > buffer > distortion > *clean boost > phaser > HD500 effects return.

 

DT25 effects send > Keeley comp2 > chorus > *clean boost > noise gate > DT25 effects return.

 

* I moved the "clean boost" around a lot. (Keeley Time Machine). I also tried it before the distortion to make it saturate more. Will need to spend some time figuring out where this thing sounds the best; it actually did quite well in the DT25 effects loop; but it favored the modern boost side, vs the germanium circuit.

[ColonelForbin]

Got me thinking about effects loops, and my previous thread discussing "pedal sequence" - I have yet another idea I've just mentally stumbled across! It's a thing that happens lately; I spend a bunch of time actually with the gear, let my ears work on what works and what doesn't; then on my commute to and from work, I listen to anything I've recorded, and think about ideas. I usually sort our the actual problems and come up with solutions during these thinking sessions. And since I spend about 3-1/2 hours a day driving since we moved to the western burbs, I spend a fair amount of that time pondering my rig, song ideas, sound effects, how to link gear together, and all that jazz.

 

Not sure why this didn't occur to me sooner.. I bought ProTools 11 at the start of the year, and it came with an Eleven Rack. I mucked about with the 11R for a while, then boxed it up and got distracted by jamming with the guys and working on making the JTV+HD500+DT25 rig sound good at various volumes. Then I got *really* distracted trying to make analog pedals play nice with that whole ensemble. Was doing things like putting compressor pedals into the DT25 effects loop to see what would happen!

 

Anyway, next time I set up the rig, am going to try this idea: put the Eleven Rack in the DT25 effects loop - no amp modeling from the 11R, just set it as all the "post" effects - delays, chorus, reverb, compression/boost, noise gate, etc.

 

I've been putting those "post" FX in the post section of the HD500 signal, and putting other gear into the DT25 effects loop. Since the Eleven Rack also has an effects loop, I could put the 11R into the DT25 effects loop, and put outboard pedals into the 11R effects loop, and get them positioned in the appropriate position relative to the delay and reverb. This will also free up the FX / FS slots on the HD500 to do "pre" effects for the variax side of things. I was already summing the dual channels to a single mono before hitting the delays and verbs anyway; this will let me do things like tap tempo phaser, and some of the pitch shifting effects, some of the more usable drives, comps, etc. Plus it's gear I *already* own, so I don't have to spend any $$ to figure out what works and what doesn't!

 

I was maxing out DSP rather quickly using two "pre" amp models, to the point where I couldn't work much of a patch together for the non-analog signal path. I ended up with two amp models, two verbs, one delay, two volume pedals, one fx loop, and at that point DSP was mostly maxed out - was able to squeeze one more effect in, but not all effects were available.

 

For me, the heart and soul of *why* I keep jumping through Frankenstein's Hoops on this rig, and why I stick with the HD500, is the amp switching ability. Even if I was ONLY using the amp models on the HD500 to control the DT25, it would be worth it - which is getting close to where I am at with this "Expanded" rig idea. Bumping the "post" effects into an outboard unit like the Eleven Rack (also got my eye on the G Major 2) definitely frees up some of the more "fun" and tasty HD500 effects, like the autowahs, the pitch shifting, some of the drives and comps, phasers, flangers, etc. Pretty much anything that would work in the "pre" amp model slot. There is an autowah that makes vowel sounds, that one is pretty cool, and sounds decent - alot of stuff I never messed with, for the sake of choosing the traditional comp/drive/delay/verb stuff.

 

Will report back when I have time to try this latest idea out! I guess I will need to save up some $$ toward the Voodoo Lab Ground Control and the Mission Engineering expression pedal to go with it.. :)

[DarrellM5]

Wow Colonel, that's one heck of a rig.  It should take you about 20 years to explore all of the tonal possibilities of those toys.  Looks like you had a great weekend.  With all of those switches and pedals, you're feet are probably moving more than the drummer's.

[radatats]

Wow Colonel, that's one heck of a rig.  It should take you about 20 years to explore all of the tonal possibilities of those toys.  Looks like you had a great weekend.  With all of those switches and pedals, you're feet are probably moving more than the drummer's.

 

All I can say is the Colonel better have a bunch of boot Lieutenants to carry and set up all his gear... LOL...

[ColonelForbin]

Yeah, I kinda overdid it.. :)  Overall it's the kind of rig that is easy to scale; the core of the whole thing still remains the HD500. If I only had that and the JTV, I could still do alot of what I am trying to achieve without all the extra stuff!

 

I realized last night when I put the pedalboard into the hard case how much weight it adds to the "hauling" factor.

 

Like mowing the lawn, it's a workout!

 

Eyeballing the Voodoo Lab Ground Control to control the Eleven Rack - which would make the stage footprint of all my pedalboards ridiculous!!

[jandrio]

... the core of the whole thing still remains the HD500. If I only had that and the JTV, I could still do alot of what I am trying to achieve without all the extra stuff!...

yea, HD500+JTV is n unbeatable ...wild beast