POD HD500 vs. M13 - differences

[panca]

The obvious things:

 

- POD HD500: 8 fx + AMP

- M13: 4 fx - NO amp

 

- POD HD500: line level + level control (even on FX loop)

- M13: 4 fx - instrument level - NO level control

 

- POD HD500: 1 integrated pedal + external optional pedal

- M13: 2 external optional pedals

 

- POD HD500: guitar + AUX inputs

- M13: stereo inputs

 

- POD HD500: NO true bypass

- M13: true bypass (NOT if you wants delay and reverb tails when switch off fx)

 

- POD HD500: "instant switching" to up to 8 fx block.

- M13: "instant switching" to up to 12 fx block.

 

SO: from my point, the POD wins hans down, BUT is not clear if the processing quality and latency is different between the two machines.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on some point, and add your experiences.

 

Thanks

 

m.p.

 

[ColonelForbin]

Here's my take on the two units: I've owned an HD500 since 2010; I just bought a used M13 from a guy on Craigslist yesterday (sweet price for the M13, a Gator pedalboard, an expression pedal, and a Line6 G50 wireless unit!)

 

So, here's where I am at with this stuff: they are both fan-friggin'-tastic, for specific reasons that are hard to compare them to each other because of.

 

I also use a JTV59 and a DT25 amp. So, for me the HD500 is indispensable : it powers the JTV with the vdi cable, and it handles the L6Link to the DT25. In Link mode, the HD500 and the DT25 work together to render the amp models - so part of the signal path is digital (the preamp and the FX) and the rest is analog (the Bogner switching and tube amp portion).

 

One other side note, the HD500 can also be used as a USB ASIO soundcard for doing studio/direct type recording. The M13 does not have a USB port, I believe you have to use a MIDI interface to update the firmware. Also, I don't know if there is any standalone software editor for the M13.

 

On the HD side, the recent firmware updates for the HD500/HD500x and the JTV series now allow the JTV to connect to the computer through the HD500, which allows you to edit patches for the HD500 using the HD editor, and  the JTV using the HD Gearbox - which is pretty cool.

 

For me, I am a little FX happy/crazy - am also in the midst of assembling a sweet analog pedalboard and using the JTV/HD to create dual amp models with split inputs (with the JTV and HD, you can assign the variax models and the variax mags to two different inputs and split them through their own amp model preamps and their own FX paths).

 

In the use of the M13, I am placing it in the FX loop of the HD500, in the "post" amp model section, and using the M13 primarily for mods, delays and reverbs.

 

One feature the M13 offers, which I didn't fully appreciate until I rigged all this stuff up for the first time last night, is the "on deck" feature.

 

Yes, the M13 only offers four effects "on" at any given time. HOWEVER, it offers - as you rightly mentioned - up to 12 total effects blocks assigned and ready at the tap of a footswitch. These 12 can be *any* of the effects, in any order in any combination. They are switched up manually, or they can be programmed into "scenes" or rigs, or whatever they call it. It also doesn't run out of DSP near as I know - the HD amp modeling can get pretty DSP intensive, especially when using the full amp models, vs the PRE versions which are specific for use with the DT amps.

 

So, for me, pairing the two is stellar! My rig was hum free, totally quiet and noise free in the HD500 FX loop, and I don't even need to use a noise gate, for the most part, until I start cranking really high gain amps.

 

Both are very versatile pieces of gear, though with very different applications.

[ColonelForbin]

I suppose, quick response - if you had to choose, and all other factors like guitars, amps, etc being not a crucial factor - the HD500/500x gives you more overall functionality. And the HD amp models are *amazing*. You have a comparable version of the effects selections, just a different means to access it.

 

The major bonus extras the HD500 offers:

 

-ASIO soundcard

-Line6Link

-XLR mic input

-XLR outputs

-USB interface to use software editor / firmware update

-Variax interface

[Mincer]

The m13 allows volume control of the looper by an exp pedal. So does the m9 and the dl4. The HD500 does not allow the expression pedals to control any parameter of the looper.

[ColonelForbin]

The m13 allows volume control of the looper by an exp pedal. So does the m9 and the dl4. The HD500 does not allow the expression pedals to control any parameter of the looper.

 

That is awesome - I didn't know that!! That's the missing link right there - I am liking the M13 + HD500, but was having looper issues because my noise gate is only tracking the input signal from the guitar; it was hearing nothing from the guitar after I started a loop; I may have to mess with using the M13 looper and see if I can route things properly so I can get the noise gate positioned properly. Being able to control the looper volume with the exp pedal is a stellar feature...

[smrybacki]

So here's a wild, random thought for you Colonel -- why not run the M13 in the outboard effects of the POD and have like 12 effects possible at once -- never run into DSP overload.

Lol...nevermind, you already figured that out.

[Mincer]

That is awesome - I didn't know that!! That's the missing link right there - I am liking the M13 + HD500, but was having looper issues because my noise gate is only tracking the input signal from the guitar; it was hearing nothing from the guitar after I started a loop; I may have to mess with using the M13 looper and see if I can route things properly so I can get the noise gate positioned properly. Being able to control the looper volume with the exp pedal is a stellar feature...

Which is why it is so odd to be left off of the HD500. If it something you might want to see implemented, I would ask that you lend your voice to the HD500 feature request post: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/HD500-Looper-volume-should-be-controlled-by-exp-pedal/490433-23508

I think a bunch of looping players might jump on an HD500, but all are frustrated and are still using the DL4 or M-series, which, for some reason, has a looper that is more usable in a live setting. 

[ColonelForbin]

So here's a wild, random thought for you Colonel -- why not run the M13 in the outboard effects of the POD and have like 12 effects possible at once -- never run into DSP overload.

 

Lol...nevermind, you already figured that out.

 

Yeah, I stumbled into this M13 thing headlong in the midst of a bunch of semi-stupid ideas about how to split inputs and a bunch of other complex ideas that weren't doing so well when I actually plugged it all in. I was going to put my Eleven Rack into the HD500 fx loop and muck about with disabling the amp sims on the 11R when I found the M13 on Craigslist.

 

At the moment, the M13 is sitting in the "post" section, running stereo in the HD500 fx loop. Sounds pretty stellar, I like the ability to have so many effects "on deck", and not rely as much on patch / amp model changes to accomplish those types of effects. Love the particle verb. Makes it sound like a rain stick is in the mix, somewhere in the background. Pairing that effect with delays and a hall or some other 'traditional' reverb gives the tones some nice depth and spacial effect for certain types of moods.

 

Will probably try running everything through the pair of L2t's tonight, see how that goes. The "pre" effects for now, are a combination of the HD500 effects and some outboard analog gear - that's where I got stuck on the dual input / splitting the variax signal stuff. I had been using the fx loop in the pre position, and sending the 'variax mags' signal through the analog gear. But the fx loop actually works better in the post position through the M13, so I ended up running the 'variax mags' on one amp model through the HD500 "pre" fx (wah, comp, drive, etc) and the 1/4" variax going through the analog gear and on to the guitar in of the HD500. The M13 came with a G50 wireless unit, so that has been a nice means to send that 1/4" signal to the analog pedalboard.

 

I am going to rig that up again tonight after work and record some more noodling around, in studio/direct, see what it sounds like. I got some really spacy sounds out of the last session before the memory card filled up. Prob leave the DT25 out of the mix for now, though it would be interesting to compare the studio/direct signal to the DT25 XLR out signal, all other variables being equal.

[ColonelForbin]

Voted, #68! The status actually now says "in review" as of 3 days ago. Great idea!! You can control everything else on there with the exp pedals, seems like it should be do-able to control the looper volume too! In the meantime, I am totally going to figure out how to set up that looper / exp control on the M13. I need to read the manual and figure out how to adjust some fx selections, start creating a few custom banks of effects stacks.

 

Which is why it is so odd to be left off of the HD500. If it something you might want to see implemented, I would ask that you lend your voice to the HD500 feature request post: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/HD500-Looper-volume-should-be-controlled-by-exp-pedal/490433-23508

I think a bunch of looping players might jump on an HD500, but all are frustrated and are still using the DL4 or M-series, which, for some reason, has a looper that is more usable in a live setting. 

[smrybacki]

See, now this might cost me more money....An M13 in ythe effects loop of my HD500 and into a pair of L2Ts....dang you ColonelForbin!

[panca]

I know it's difficult, but I wish to know if someone made comparison on fx quality (tone, low-level definition etc.) between HD500 and M13.

 

As side note, I perfectly understand the versatility and power of HD500 + M13, but we are using in this case 3 AD/DA sections in cascade.

 

 

Thanks again

 

marco

[Digital_Igloo]

Both are very versatile pieces of gear, though with very different applications.

This is the critical comment here. Many of us at Line 6 obsess over workflow, and M13 and HD500/X are very, very different beasts in this regard.

[Mincer]

The HD can be made to sound like the M13, but takes awhile to set up levels right to do so. You can use the HD like an effects-only device, but it isn't as easy to use that way due to the unity gain problems- it also isn't true bypass. I use the HD for recording, but use the m13 live, because I need that volume control over the looper.

[panca]

This is the critical comment here. Many of us at Line 6 obsess over workflow, and M13 and HD500/X are very, very different beasts in this regard.

If M13 uses the same logic as POD HD (every time you select an effect you have to restart from the same preset, losing all settings: delay time, modulation speed, dry/wet ratio etc, so that make comparisons between different effects can be a nightmare), "workflow" in my opinion is a dangerous word. Every time you change, you start from scratch; you can't copy an effect or amp setting; you can't save YOUR fx or amp setting to later recall. I see lot of "work" and very little "flow".

m.