perapera

actually the most accurate measure I did gave me -5.4dB ;-) it can also be that not each resistor in each pod unit is the same...

sorry guys I had to re-upload the zip again (!) I found an inconsistency between the setlist saved on PC vs my setlist on the pod thanks radatats! now another good independent test confirms my routing schematics' truthfulness by the way I updated the drawings to make them clearer http://line6.com/support/topic/2033-pod-hd-500-500x-new-routing-schematics/

I updated my routing schematics the mods do not concern the content of the routing It's just a clearer way to explain the same signal routing many thanks to Milan, Line 6 fan and Line 6 manuals' translator into Czech language for inspiring me in doing that cheers Lorenzo

Thanks to you, Milan, I started modifying my schematics and ended up with a version I like A LOT! you can redraw your version and publish it, but I think that here I'll stick with this handmade version at least for a while bye and happy new year! Lorenzo

you're absolutely right and the reason is that with only Input-1 active you are NOT using the split which sends the signal on path B so, as you said, it is always possible to clip the pod internally or to clip the D/A by the routing choices and levels you set in each amp or fx one of these choices is the input setting, but this has effect only on the (digital) input of your fx chain in a real setup, if you are saturating the amp speaker, do you lower the volume pot on your guitar or the master volume on the amp?

with the input settings you can clip some kind of fx blocks not the inputs from my tests the pod itself (new tone) whithout the input pad clips at +10.5dBu with or without the second input active with the pad active it clips at +15.5dBu with or without the second input active if your guitar has such a hi-output to clip the input circuit of the pod (even with the pad active) there is no input setting to help you

...one idea suddely came to my mind: isn't it ALL ABOUT THE VARIAX? maybe the variax with two inputs works differently than one the latest replies to a post by hurghanico here: http://line6.com/sup...s-the-question/ seem to go in the same direction! can someone try my patches with a normal guitar and then convert them for vaiax and try again with it? that would be very appreciated!

thanks to you RIblues for reading, about your question 1- I asked for a Line 6 official statement more than a year ago by way of a public request on the (old) forum, a support ticket and personal messages to many line 6 so called experts: none of them ever replied, ever 2- Line 6 engineers do not write (or read?) on this forum 3- nothing of what I wrote here or in my routing schematics post is in any contraddiction with the manuals, I'm simply explaining in more detail and giving MORE information about the pod routing I am sure of what I wrote so I personally won't ask again for confirmation p.s. the unofficial czech language translator of the manuals (he works wor the local distributor, not Line 6) asked me to use my routings in his translation so at least czech people will have a better manual ;-)

tech note: I modified some details in the files into the zip archive the link remains the same and the file names too so please since I saw at least 3 downloads those three people should delete the files they downloaded and re-download from the link above sorry again Lorenzo

I posted a new topic about the Input Settings "Phase Issue" and the choice between a single input active (e.g. guitar/variax) or both inputs active (guitar/guitar), here it is: http://line6.com/support/topic/4586-pod-hd500-hd500x-input-settings-phase-issue-myth-and-facts-single-input-vs-both-inputs

hi guys, • first of all I must say that my intent here is NOT to tread on anyone's toes I just don't like when an idea, not founded on reality, begins to spread and everyone thinks it's the truth, while the facts say something else • the background: many users in this and other forums reported the same "feeling" that something is wrong when using the default Input Settings which means selecting the same signal for input 1 and 2 (I'll refer to this as "guitar/same" o "both inputs active"): according to them, this setting introduces some artifact which I'll call for simplicity "the input settings phase issue" as a consequence they say that by choosing guitar/variax (therefore "disabling" input 2) you get a better tone (of course if you use a variax you must "translate" what you read, the point is: if you are using only one instrument, should you choose its input for Input-1 and "same" for Input-2 or not?) • I never read more than personal opinions on this matter and no "scientific" tests and of course simply switching between one or two inputs in the same patch is not even to take into consideration due to gain differences so I decided to run those tests by myself • even before testing I must say that, if the phase issue between input-1 and 2 was true, then it should be ascribed to a serious bug in the POD HD signal routing "both inputs active" is even the default setting so it should work as expected • if you're interested in the POD HD signal routing and to take full advantage of the possibilities of this machine, please take a look at these routing schematics I built months ago based on many tests: http://line6.com/support/topic/2033-pod-hd-500-500x-routing-schematics/ • and finally the real point of this post: I tested the difference by ear with a guitar and a looper before the pod and did not hear any difference, then I tested it in a professional way and confirmed that THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between guitar/same and guitar/variax Input Settings is the level that the first effect/amp in the pre-path will receive. So choosing guitar/variax is not "better" than guitar/same, it's just a good way to lower the input level and so reduce the distortion/saturation of your first effect/amp in the pre-path. The POD HD500 routing, as explained in my schematics, simply says that the "normal" level to send to the first effect is with both inputs active (guitar/same), this is proved by the fact that putting the same distortion/amp in the pre-path or in one of the dual paths gives the same distortion ONLY if the inputs are on guitar/same (see the last part of my post here: http://line6.com/support/topic/2033-pod-hd-500-500x-routing-schematics/ ); as I already wrote, this does NOT mean that using only one input (Guitar/Variax) is wrong, on the contrary, it is perfectly reasonable if you want cleaner tones: it gives exactly the same result as adding a fixed volume pedal at -6dB, but it's better, because you don't waste an fx block! in the same way simply no one can say that using both inputs is wrong or that it's causing problems on its own (unless he/she proves it); on the contrary, if you want to use a dual amp setup and you choose only one input (Guitar/Variax) then you have to waste an fx block (e.g. noise gate 100%-0%) to send the signal to both paths! This doesn't make sense to me at all. • I did the tests with a BC Rich Mockinbird with a DiMarzio Super Distortion on the bridge position, mounting GHS Boomers 11-50: not exactly a quiet signal... and I didn't even have to insert the input pad of the pod; so for me no clipping is caused by the use of both inputs alone at least for the effects I used in the tests of course, for example, the studio eq and the tube comp have a relatively low clipping threshold with respect to the POD internal routing BUT it is a simulation of an analog clipping so it's an intended effect! and again I've got nothing against the usage of the single input if you want to put one of those effects as the first and want it to be cleaner but please then do not crank the output of the effect or you'll be back to the start! • last but not least, please if you are confused by the routing do not think that you have to use the "path A only" solution (putting everything in path A, center its pan and mute path B ), you will get exactly the same tone and simplicity by using the defaults to be more detailed: - start from the default new tone (maybe switch the inputs to guitar/same jut to avoid any possible noise from other inputs) - use the amp in the default position (pre split) - if you don't need the parallel A/B paths simply do not touch them or the mixer - put the pre effects like distortion in the pre path - put the post effects like reverb in the post path and you'll be perfectly ok this should be written in the manuals, and in part is is, I needed to clarify it • for those of you who are interested, I created a setlist with the patches I used for testing, so that you can hear for yourself; in a note inside the zip file, there are the descriptions of the patches and of the tests I did http://bit.ly/K2xOcC EDIT: • some amplifiers/fx models can have a slightly different sound thanks to an attenuation to the signal sent to them independently from their drive pot position (maybe because there is some pre-drive-pot circuit ?!? thanks to gckelloch for the idea) this attenuation can be obtained with the "single input" setting only if your amp/fx is in the pre path, otherwise you need a workaround read here for more details: http://line6.com/support/topic/4586-pod-hd500-hd500x-input-settings-phase-issue-myth-and-facts-single-input-vs-both-inputs/?do=findComment&comment=30409 good reading/testing and merry christmas!! Lorenzo

here is the thread on using both xlr and jack for mono or stereo setups: http://line6.com/support/topic/2617-using-both-line-out-and-xlr-out/

Hi talwilkins yes of course yours can seem a good reason for doing this and you're not saying that you do it because it sounds better... 'cause it doesn't indeed it's exactly the same, I mean exactly... ...follow me: I imagine that you mute the path B and center the path A pan, right? well what I'm telling you is that if you move all yor effects in pre and post path and put the amp in its default position keeping the same fx/amp order (and leave the B fader muted and the path A pan centered) the sound will remain TOTALLY unchanged as long as the input settings are at their default (or guitar/same) and you'll still have you single master fader see? no need to go so far from the default, that's all I'm saying here just try it on a copy of your patch, save it and compare them peace Lore

- internal clipping is surely possible but not at default settings and only using one amp (being it at default settings too), in the test above, if the guitar doesn't clip the A/D converter (you can hear it with all amp/fx bypassed), then using Guitar/Same will not clip; If engineers at line6 designed a dual path unit which, at its default settings, is unable to receive the same signal on both inputs, without internal clipping, they would be crazy or unqualified (if you start adding eq, comp, etc of course you can clip it) - my understanding of the POD HD500 routing, as explained in my schematics, simply says that the "normal" level to send to the first effect is with both inputs active (Guitar/Same), this is proved by the fact that putting the same distortion/amp in the pre-path or in one of the dual paths gives the same distortion ONLY if the inputs are on Guitar/Same (see the last part of my original post, which has been edited to be even more clear); as I already wrote, this doesn't mean that using only one input (Guitar/Variax) is wrong, on the contrary, it is perfectly reasonable if you want cleaner tones: it gives exactly the same result as adding a fixed volume pedal at -6dB, but it's better, because you don't waste an fx block! in the same way you just can't say that using both inputs is wrong or that it's causing problems on its own (unless you prove it); on the contrary, if you want to use a dual amp setup and you choose only one input (Guitar/Variax) then you have to waste an fx block (noise gate 100%-0%) to send the signal to both paths! This doesn't make sense to me at all (unless you need to attenuate the input because the amplifiers' drive pots are already low but you want an even cleaner tone from both amps). - we arrived at the point that many people think to solve the so called "problem" of the two inputs by giving away their ability to use two signal paths and putting every effect (and amp) on path A only! This choice is unfounded for 2 reasons: 1- you have a machine able to do complex routing and you give this possibility away because you think it is flawed (if it's true, return it) 2- worse: by putting everything on Path A, you are actually sending to your effects exactly the same signal * as if you did put everything in the pre path and select Guitar/Same so it just CAN NOT sound different, but, as someone else said that not using input-2 and path-B sounds better, you just do it without properly testing it and against the default settings of the unit I'm aware that all of this confusion comes from the official documentation: I think that the manuals are guiltily incomplete on purpose, to avoid to make you think that it's a complex machine because it has a complex manual. that's why I posted all of this: to explain how this unit really works to people who are interested in using it at it's full potential * look at the last 2 pictures in my original post if you use those two setups with Guitar/Same you get EXACTLY the same result if you use those two setups with Guitar/Variax you get less distortion in the second one

my short answer to your question is "if you don't hear the problem yourself, don't worry" meambobbo is definitely "devoted" to precision and other users in this forum reported the same "feeling" that something is wrong when using both inputs, so I do not doubt they hear something, but I never read more than personal opinions on this matter and no scientific test (simply switching between one or two inputs in the same patch is not even to take into consideration due to gain differences) If the phase issue between input-1 and 2 was true, then it should be ascribed to a serious bug in the POD HD signal routing I did a quick test (I think more than a year ago) and I posted the results in the old forum which unfortunately is not searchable now... I remember I tried the two inputs whith sine waves and there was no sign of phase issues... anyway you can try it empirically: - recall a default "new tone" - set-up a fixed volume pedal (de-assign it from any expression pedal) in the pre path - set the volume to 71% (this is approximately -6dB) - select an amp - save the patch and then save a copy of it in a new memory location - in the new patch bypass the volume pedal and set Input-1 to Guitar and Input-2 to Variax - save (if you're using the pc editor, also save on the pod itself and disconnect the usb cable) - now switch between the two patches with the footswitches and listen for differences I did it: - I did put a looper before the pod (the internal looper IS affected by the input selections) and tried the above with different riffs and some different amplifiers (twin vib, plexi brt, mesa) and I don't hear ANY difference (with headphones) - I even tried it with parallel paths putting a mono-summing fx block (the noise gate with 100% decay and 0% threshold) after the volume pedal in the single input patch and two identical amps on the two paths (by the way, the dual path with two with identical amps and settings, sounds exactly as the single path with only one amp and with identical amp and settings; I used the default amps settings to be sure) - I then tried a "real" dual path with different amps: same result ...I'd like to have the time to run more tests and record the results to permanently confirm or deny the issue... but sorry, for now I'm done... for me it's not an issue

Hi Milan I'm VERY sorry for my delay I've been too busy in the last month... You did a great job, man! I like your drawings the only details that I would change are in the pan section: 1. if you want to insert the volume fader, that should be a separate block from the pan and it should be before it 2. I would call the pan "pan (balance)" just because it IS a balance but it's labelled pan in the HD500 3. (this is difficult to explain in words, but it's important: I'll try my best) the lines which represent the signals that output from the pan should not start from the same point but should be separated the concept that must be represented is "two signals go into the balance and two signals come out of the balance" 4. if you want you can add a "+" sign (which is not present in my drawings) where the left signals from A and B are summed and another where the right signals from A and B are summed again I know I'm late but if you can put theese mods into your drawings they would become perfect thanks again and merry christmas!! Lorenzo p.s. please, let me know how to quote you as the drawer when I'll put your drawings in my original post in this thread

I don't use the pod as an interface but I do reamp a lot in many ways if the DAW can output the dry guitar thru the jack out of the pod (switched phisically to "amp") while simultaneously record from the mic in there shouldn't be any problems as long as you DO NOT assign the mic in to the pod's out of course anyway listening to the noise the pod does when usb-connected to pc just to use the edit software I wouldn't be surprised if you get that noise too it's a ground loop problem and you would need a transofmer isolator... ...which, with a pad, is exactly what a reamp box is ;-)

YES it's complicated and I LOVE IT :D

anyway in case you Dave can't change much of the venue's setup, we go back to the original question: "Using Amp Modeling When Playing With A Guitar Amp?" my personal answer is: no if you go into the amp's input yes with experimentation (on preamp/full, cab+mic/no cab & output modes, see above) if you go to the amp's return bye Lore

:D seriously, I'd like to talk to the sound guy / tech manager of a 5500 seats venue that: - uses a 1/4>XLR>1/4 cable for "noise" issues... that cable system is unbalanced, they could use a mono jack-jack with identical bad sound AND noise results - doesn't let you connect in the simplest/best way for you AND for them workaround: disconnect the adapters from both ends of the in-famous XLR and connect the stage-end to the pod XLR-out and the closet-end to the other XLR that normally is connected to the microphone which captures the mesa this way you go to the consolle directly! - @ John-jandrio (& Dave-theguitarzan) I think Dave doesn't seem to need stereo since he was connecting to the input of the amp using the pod in stompbox mode; of course with my sentence "the mono-stereo issue for me is often a non-issue", I was referring to this particular case (that is very common indeed), in wich someone wants to use a mono signal and feels worried :unsure: about loosing the Right signal by connecting only the Left XLR... ...don't worry too much :) , 90% of the time there is no problem in doing that; of course true stereo is an improvement over mono (in many applications), but then you have to... well... use a stereo setup and you don't have the problem to mix to mono to use a single cable! in case someone (Dave?) has true stereo patches but in one specific venue is forced to use a single cable I would: A- create specific mono patches for that venue (annoying) and follow the workaround I described above B- use his normal patches connecting the Left Jack of the pod to a DI and then use the workaround I described above from the DI to the consolle in both cases some stereo effects mixed to mono COULD create some phase issues, so you'll need to check them by bypassing them and listening if they "suck" some of your tone

yeah the lm2 has a 10" speaker but don't compare a 10" DSP powered speaker to a 12" one that costs 3 times less... ... well you can compare it, using your ears if you can try out one! I've never tried one don't buy before try! I personally use an unusual setup that has worked great for me with normal-tuned, baritone and synth guitar: pod L-jack out > ART DPSII valve preamp/DI > markbass F1 return (used as a Class D 500W linear power amp with comprehensive eq) > one or two Gallien Krueger neo112 (passive 12"x1 bass cabinets with the tweeter switched off) maybe it wouldn't work for an acoustic guitar but for my use sounds great from super clean to super distorted and it's light, modular and loud I think the main positive role has to be given to how that speaker, designed for an instrument, works on transients and dynamics (one of the aspects that the pod DO NOT model) in comparison to a PA speaker

- the mono-stereo issue for me is often a non-issue if you build your patch keeping the signal mono (or quasi-mono) you don't need to use the pod mixer's pan-pots or an external mixer, you can safely use a single XLR out to fully understand why, please read point 2) of this post of mine: http://line6.com/support/topic/2617-using-both-line-out-and-xlr-out/?do=findComment&comment=17988 - I would embrace the radatats's suggestion of the DT25/50 but I'm still convinced that, if you can't have your amp on stage, then you don't really need it - and to jandrio I think the "single XLR" is the one that goes to the closet they hopefully will have more XLR from stage to consolle/PA :) - anyway I would't use a jack to XLR adapter to go to the PA (the venue is big and noise can be a problem with unbalanced long cables) if, and I repeat if, after reading the post I linked above, the mono/stereo issue ends up as a real issue, I would connect the left jack to a DI and then to consolle/PA or use both XLR outs peace Lore

hi guitarzan - you surely can use the pod as a stompbox modeler; if you can't switch channels on your amp, you will have to use the pod distortions - but if are not satisfied with the pod's distortions into the input of your amp, which I think is the case, because otherwise you wouldn't have tried the pod amps and posted here, would you? :-) ... ...so if you are not satisfied and if your amp has an effects return input you can use the pod amps, as radatats suggested but remember that you'll have to LEARN those amps AND experiment with preamps with and without cab/mic and also full amps with and without cab/mic and all this in combination with the output modes (Combo Power Amp, Stack Power Amp and Studio/Direct should be the ones to try out); this can be FUN for someone or BAD for others (I'm on the "fun" side ;-)) - then, as a sound eng., I'd ask you: how do you connect the XLR you have on stage to the amp's input? with a reamp box? please tell me you're not using an XLR to jack adapter cable! so: pod > XLR mic level out > mic preamp > reamp box > "single channel" amp > microphone > consolle > PA a setup like this is the only one that will correctly drive your amp's input and, if you use the return of the amp, you can only bypass the reamp box in that chain - all that said I would change approach and ask: why not try the pod directly into the PA? this is what I would do. The only benefit of using a real amp is having it on stage as a perfect monitor for you, but you're putting the amp "in an isolation closet off stage", so... this way you'll also have to learn the amps to choose your favourites, but you can peacefully choose full amps with cab/mics and Studio/Direct output mode AND you can create the sounds at home with more confidence that they will sound similar on stage hope to be helpful bye Lore

don't be on a hurry my friend ;-)

thanks edstar, I really enjoy helping when I can, reading your story I thought: 1 - since you have many speaker oprtions why not using the pod in "stereo"? stereo is in quotes because using both XLR outs does not mean you are in stereo it's the kind of effect you use that create the stereo image 2 - if you are using a mixer as an additional gain stage you can avoid Y cables and connect both pod outputs to the mixer, pan them both to center or maybe both to left for example and then take the left out of the mixer and connect the two linked speakers 3- a 12" speaker works better on guitar than a 10" speaker even if it's a PA, so if you can try that too 4- the pod XLR outputs carry a balanced microphone level signal, it's a little hot for a microfone level but it's definitely NOT a line level, it could be something like 30dB softer than the jack outputs; the only benefit of XLR is the balancing which helps with noise interferences ON LONG cables I mean over 10 meters, you don't need that AND using a jack out will mix to mono internally but, as I see from your edit, you discovered this by yourself ;-) 5- many guitarists know that a valve power amp has a way of treating dynamics that gives it more volume and cut-thru even with low wattage, your 200+200W system should be enough to balance maybe a 30-40W valve amp