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perapera

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perapera last won the day on October 10 2014

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About perapera

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  1. perapera

    TS 1/4 outputs

    yes and in the article you linked above it says they have 1Mohm impedance this means that returns are in general more appropriate as auxiliary guitar/bass inputs than the aux in !
  2. perapera

    TS 1/4 outputs

    I measured the guitar in pad at -5,5dB the XLR outs at line level have the same level as the jack outs when switched to mic it's -11dB less (which is not so much for a line/mic switch by the way) the aux in, which has a fixed impedance of 10kOhm, compared to the guitar input when also set to 10kohm, has 7,5dB less another interesting fact is that the signal chain: guitar input (no-pad, 1Mohm) > unity gain blank patch > master volume at maximum > Left Jack output "Instrument" is at unity gain (the input level equals the otuput level) (this setup is thought for going to the input of a real amp using the Helix as a "pre-amp pedalboard" so it's at unity as many bypassed effect pedals are)
  3. perapera

    TS 1/4 outputs

    yes, I can confirm that and also sends work the same way (-8dB for instrument) while returns compensate by attenuating by -8dB when in line mode
  4. perapera

    TS 1/4 outputs

    thanks zolko60 for poiting me to the specifications article then I ask myself: why would a company spend money to have on their product 6x TRS jacks and the relative impedance balancing circuit (not a lot of money but money anyway) and write about it only on a forum and let people think they are TS by suggesting to use TS cables in the manual?!? just to not scary people?! or to avoid that people buy TRS cables?! what about just writing "use TS cables to go to unbalanced gear, use TRS cables to go to balanced gear" ? on old products there used to be an "advanced guide" and a "pilot's guide" or something like that ... it was way less insulting than being treated as dumb people sorry for the ranting...
  5. perapera

    TS 1/4 outputs

    actually there is this interesting article by a line 6 moderator that contradicts the manual and says that all outputs on the Helix, including sends, are TRS impedance balanced !
  6. perapera

    Multiple Assign Effect on more than 1 footswitch.

    is there an ideascale entry for that too?
  7. perapera

    Multiple Assign Effect on more than 1 footswitch.

    c'mon guys we need more votes!
  8. I'd like to add that on the Helix manual at p. 44 under "Tips for Creative Controller Assignment" it says: "To smoothly blend between the tone on parallel paths A and B, select a Split > A/B block and assign the Route To parameter to an expression pedal. By default, a heel-down position means the signal passes fully through Path A. Moving the pedal toward the toe-down position will gradually crossfade into Path B. Alternatively, assign a footswitch to control the Route To parameter, for instantly switching back and forth" "gadually crossfade" is wrong and actually it would be cool if it was a crossfader (but they can not change it in a fw update, because that would ruin many user presets) what they could do is actually add a crossfader parameter in the merge mixer block but of course we could do that by assigning level A and level B, or two gain blocks each on his path, to the same expression pedal with opposite min and max values: this also avoids the problem of sending different levels from the split to gain-related fx and amps on the two paths, because we are controlling the levels after the fx ...the potential problem I see with the use of mixer levels is that -60dB, which is the minimum value for the levels in the mixer block, is not exactly silence (by the way, why didn't they go with -120dB like in the gain block?!?) I say "potential" because the interference of a signal -60dB lower than another totally depends on the kind of sounds at stake i.e.: it coul totally be ok for two clean or two distorted sounds but maybe not for a clean vs a distorted sound
  9. perapera

    Levels and different kinds of splits

    the a/b "route to" parameter does not have a pan law it changes the volume because it's not a crossfader but a balance so it gives you both paths at full volume at the center position and attenuates one of the paths when you move it so it's a good idea to use snapshots, the best controls to mix two cabs, would be merge mixer faders (problem: they only go down to -60dB) or the cabs or IR's levels or a gain block in each path anyway I think a new "split crossfader" block or better a "merge crossfader" parameter! would be a good addon for a new firmware
  10. perapera

    Levels and different kinds of splits

    Yes, I think you got it all wrong, sorry :) You should read it again... I wrote that the attenuation or the boost is happening at the merge block mixer not at the split I wrote that the a/b split "route to" parameter is not very well suited to mix between two different amps (or cabs) on the two paths, but just to switch between them and the acoustic power sum thing applies to... well acoustics, so we're talking real hardware speakers not the virtual speaker cabinets inside of helix
  11. perapera

    Levels and different kinds of splits

    you may find this helpful: cheers Lorenzo
  12. perapera

    Increased Output level when placing fx on "Path B"

    you may find this helpful: cheers Lorenzo
  13. perapera

    Question about Split A/B and Merge block levels

    you could find this helpful : cheers Lorenzo
  14. perapera

    Single vs Dual amp path channel volume matching

    hi, I totaly understand your need to have the same amp parameters sound the same on a single path or on a dual path with an A/B split-switch you came to the right solution, but may be interested in this anyway: cheers Lorenzo
  15. hi guys first of all I'd like to let you know that I read all the threads I found about this same subject and didn't find the complete answers, so I decided to run some tests myself (like I did on the POD HD years ago) and to create a new thread with my results (I'm on FW 2.60 by the way) ok, I'll start from the end results, so that those who just need to have a quick answer can read it immediatly, then I'll give some deeper explanations the main point of this post is: the moment you create a split/merge routing configuration by dragging down a block you get a level change: after the merge block, with all bypassed fx: with split A/B and Y you get +3dB at the output sum with split crossover you get -3dB at the output sum BUT each path by itself gets attenuated by -3dB so if you use the split A/B to switch between sounds, each of those sounds is -3dB qiueter than the same fx/amp with the same settings in a non-splitted path the good news are that the level changes do not actually occur at the split, so the two paths are both an exact copy of the signal before the split, instead the change occurs at the merge block so the right solution is to act on the merge mixer faders --- why? and why those values? • well to answer, I need to clarify two things that I've read someone get wrong and mixed up in other threads 1) when you sum two identical signals in a circuit either analog or digital you get +6dB boost (voltage sum) 2) when you send a signal to a physical speaker and then send the same identical signal also to another identical speaker you get +3dB (acoustic power sum) this is math and physics, not an opinion now, this second point is one of the reasons why something called "pan law" exists: as we said, when you have a mono signal going to two speakers (so the pan knob on a mixer is at the center position) you get +3dB of sound pressure so mixer designers in some cases decided to pad the center position of the pan knob by -3dB, gradually returning to unity gain at the extremes (in some other cases they may use -2.5, -4.5 or -6dB: the actual effect of the pan law depends on the coherence/incoherence of the signals, on speaker placement, on listening conditions, and also on mixing taste I would say, so the designers have to make an assumption and take a plunge, I don't have time to enter into this now, sorry). • now back to the Helix: you have an empty "new preset" patch you have a signal going through path 1 (I used various sine waves and pink noise) you add a gain block at 0dB (if you want you can even bypass it) => nothing changes you drag the block down creating a double path => you get +3dB at the output sum so, what's going on? - the A/B or Y split duplicates the signal to two paths, so each of them carries the same identical signal which goes to a merge block mixer channel, then the two get summed together... so you should get +6dB, but... ... since the pans in the mixer have a -3dB pan law you only get +3dB - the crossover does not duplicate the signal but splits it in two frequency bands, if you sum those two filtered signals you get the exact same signal you had before, so no +6dB boost here, but there is still the pan law, so you get the -3dB - but, as I wrote before, each path by itself gets attenuated by -3dB because of the pan law, so if you use the split A/B to switch between sounds, each of those sounds is -3dB qiueter than the same fx/amp with the same settings in a non-splitted path • please note that these are not theories or speculations, I've tested and measured thoroughly every configuration and I'm sure the Helix routing works like that • all this behaviours occur identically to mono or stereo signals, remember that all the lines representing signal flow in the Helix display are always "double conductor cables" so either stereo or dual-mono (stereo = they carry two different signals; dual-mono = they carry two identical signals) this point could be deepened a lot but I don't have time for this now --- some other considerations: • if for example you open the pan pots of the merge mixer to the extreme L and R, the pan law attenuation does not apply and the level goes back to unity BUT this is not a solution, because if you run in stereo you only get the left from path 1A and the right from path 1B • I'd like to warn you of potential problems I found with the parameters inside the split blocks I) the split A/B "route to" parameter is a balance control, not a crossfader, so moving it to the left attenuates the signal going into B while not touching the signal going into A and viceversa; so it is appropriate to use that parameter to switch from A to B but not too much to find a mix of A with B for 3 reasons: 1- as I said you only have control over the attenuation of one of the two signals you are mixing 2- at center (even position) you have more level than any other position because the two signals are at full level, so the judgement on which is the best mix is compromised for psychoacoustic reasons 3- worst of all: if the blocks in the paths are amps or distortion boxes or compressors, as long as you are not in A100, "even" or B100 positions, you are sending an attenuated signal to one of them, changing its sound and not only its level II) the split Y "Balance A" and "Balance B" parameters (added in fw 2.10 so not covered in the manual) work like this: the stereo or dual mono signal goes into the split, it is duplicated to path A and B and on each of those you can control the balance between left and right, those balance control also have a pan law but different from the merge mixer block pans ! in this case it's unity at center and +3dB at sides ! (I think the reason for this is to avoid an attenuation to the splitted signals at default settings) so if for example you use 2 amps in the paths do not use these parameters or the two amps will receive a different level than if the balance is at center. --- • to finish I'll add two other Helix Routing measurements I found during my tests: - the pan block is actually a balance control with a pan law equal to that applied in the split Y block: at center it's at unity gain, going to the left attenuates the right up to minus infinite and adds +3dB to the left (and viceversa) - unlike the POD HD500 the fx sends / returns on the Helix are all at unity gain levels (+/-0.3dB), thanks Line 6 ! --- thanks for reading, I hope to have been helpful bye Lorenzo
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