bshaw92

This would be a game changer for the Helix as it places the capabilities on the next level........Are you holding out top secret information Jim??? :ph34r:

Dr Pepper. That's not the point. The point is..... what was stated earlier in the thread (The preset tones from either unit are negligible in differences) has been proven not theorized. Happy Friday.

My guess is tone matching an Axe-Fx or Kemper and using that as the source. But this is only a guess.

So I bought an AX8 to do a product comparison in real life versus basing my final decision on You Tube. I put in these specific values and the bright switch is the factor that changes things using the other variables near the same. I used a V30/M25 IR in both. The gain structure must change in the Helix to be comparable as he has additional gain in the input and bright switch. When taking off the bright switch I can get them very close. With the other values I have to play with more preamp gain and adjust bass and treble......in case you were still wondering.

At a minimum it would be nice to just have pre amp and power amp adjust ability (different options to mix and match and edit parameters) that would open up the opportunity to approximate the other amps that never get added and/or amp combinations that you create on your own. It would be better to have all of the amps, but at least with having those variables available many could get a lot of flexibility.

So what are the theories of doing this since the Helix doesn't have the option of changing the power amp tube type......unless I missed it. You could take in IR of the path using some software and try and tone match to a similar style amp model? Curious on ideas.

I have my Helix running into an mixer with VU meter. I establish a base with gig level volume and adjust by ear and VU meter (channel level and cabinet volume adjustments)

I'm no expert so I search Yahoo for typical amp speaker combinations and look up manufacturers to see what they use. Some of the dual cabinet options work out lovely -- i.e. On a Dr Z use the Z best with the 412 Blackback 12H30 as they now combine that. That speaker combo works for many amps. I also use a V30 and GB a lot. Jensen and Alnicos for some Fenders and other clean. After some of the typical it falls back to your preference. You might try setting a few different amps from clean to gainy and then change up the cabinets. Set a looper in front of the amp and record something then let it play and go adjust the cabinets.

Might be but the bass mics on the guitar cabs make me lean toward modeled. Same with the 2 Notes and Atomic. It's really speculation as I'm sure no one will confirm since it's part of their proprietary magic sauce.

Likely option 2 as Two Notes and similar products approach the variables. However, this is only speculation. Option 1 would be available by taking IR's of Kemper cabinets that people have mic'd up....however unless they are merged you don't get complete amp/cab separation and it might be hit and miss. How are the IR providers noting there process? It seems that by the number of files for some it might also likely be software models?? Recommendation when doing your comparisons after seeing two of the latest. Set up similar cabs so the amp models can be focus of comparison and take some time to setup the amp at least on the basic level. Most everyone will adjust hi and low cut on the cab. By doing this in your videos it will show that you are working toward a true comparison rather than bashing one or the other based on fizz, etc. I would say that your efforts are a little better, but you are active on the Fractal forum so transparency provides a reputable view. Maybe even use similar IR's on like amp presets.....just a recommendation from my perspective.

My 4th scribble screen on the top row went goofy.

Just wanting to throw a little praise toward support. Sent my Helix back Monday for a fix.....received it this morning. Can't ask for much better than that.

I own both the Kemper and the Helix. I may be with you on the cabs within the AX8, but not the amps. I've A/B'd with purchased and free profiles and even made profiles of my Helix settings and I would make the statement that my Helix presets and profiles are as good and many times better. The stock cabs just need adjusted. They come in with a wide range on the settings. Once narrowed down they are back in the ballpark. I also compare those sounds to a tube amp running into a weber load box and then into a Two Notes cab (so I have a mic'd sound from the tube amp into the PA) as well as switching to just speaker cabs (212 EVH 5153 12H30's & Orange 412 V30's). There are no losers in this scenario. It only continues to prove how much the technology has developed.

This is the one my link goes to. How do you link to show the link as you have it?

To further that idea - Setup a couple amps with various channel settings that are "in common" based on a known artist or someone that is well respected. That setup would be mic'd up and ran through the FOH. The competition would be for the groups to setup their product in such a way to reproduce that amp sound. Bring the guitarist back up and have an A/B/C etc. switch where there are no knowns except the guitar and cable (all equipment is unknown). Play through the various presets and then it becomes interesting. See if the guitarist can even tell the difference. Have a few other people see if they can tell any differences. Seems like a PR opportunity for the modeling/profiling industry.

on a side note....I am having troubles finding how to link the videos from YouTube as is the first post. I linked with the link function, but the first post shows the full view. I'm looking through the options but seem to be missing it.

Maybe, but it's hard to tell a persons motive from a video. Is he equally vested in both products? I don't know him so I approach it as skeptical, but informative. In the second video I posted you can actually see the parameters which also gives you an indication of some slight variances within the programming structure. i.e. the AX has more gain at the same value. Based on this when comparing you will know you might need to add a couple notches on the helix for "like" gain structure. The IR's are huge. The "fizz" can be reduced on the stock cabinets with a high cut back down to speaker cabinet territory (5-9).....or IR's for that matter. Good videos and appreciated. If you can it is probably better to compare your settings and sound against an amp though - not the alternative products. You will condition yourself to the response and sounds of an amp which is far better of a guide (if you have them available of course.) Having said that I do like hearing whatever differences may be present between the products.

Not a metal fan but the comparison was interesting. The IR's really balanced the base out. With the limited information provided it would be hard to determine if every avenue was pursued when adjusting the presets to match. Based on the amps used the variances can be simply in the amps used during programming. It also seemed that the gain was a little less on the Helix but again not know the settings prohibits any further discussion on what minor changes could be made on either side. Both sounded like an amp. Adjust to suite and rock on. Another comparison but it matters not. Choose wisely and move on. It is better to play guitar than piddle with settings for days upon end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL2yCPTlGVk

In order for the comparisons to be accurate and mean anything you have to compare apples with apples. The PA speaker and room mic will make a huge difference versus listening from a direct recording of the helix to computer. After playing around with speakers I think a V30/GB25 watt speaker blend sounds better then the 65 IR I uploaded. Good luck with your tone hunt. If you can describe more of what you think is missing it would be interesting. If you aren't testing against a similar arrangement then used in the video then we have no common base to build from and life changing results become less likely.

I never said it wasn't good. The question was can you get the tone in the Helix. Setting the amp similar and using a 12_65 speaker IR which they did as well I have the following spending approx. 15 minutes. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2t3sff6psek6jst/AADpxUsP88z0_BsbCQELOSb2a?dl=0 Try it with the speaker volume up because they are recording in the room via the PA. I was using 36th ann pickups so keep that in mind. Several of those items will make slight differences but the base is valid. I was setting it up running the video and helix through a 12" EVX112P, Yamaha HS8 and Tannoy Reveal 8. With the volume up I wouldn't de disappointed one bit. I tried my Kemper Marshall Golub Crunch profile at similar volumes. Throw in your two cents or more and let me know what changes you would make from your perspective.

Sure can. Choose the same amp and start with similar settings and adjust to how you like. Within the cabs make sure your low cut is in the 80 range and your high is 5-8 range. You are there. What do you feel is lacking or different in the Helix?

I'm getting ready to try it with an ISP stealth power amp into Orange 412 and EVH 212 5150 III.

If anyone that has purchased the pack would be so kind as to perform a test run against this preset it would help decide on whether to spend the money on the IR's. I used a Les Paul (middle position 57 classics). https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ceqs7wvl162fhr/Taylor%20314CE%20U87.hlx?dl=0

I appreciate the responses. It helps me think outside of my box into options that I might not have considered.

I would be interested with how they sound using an electric single coil, humbucker and P90. I currently use the Taylor 314 ir that is on the net.