mtreehugger

The boost setting--that's right! I'd been meaning to explore that, but always needed to play instead, then forgot entirely. There's just SO many options, but thanks to you for helping give us the lowdown in advance. As for the XLR out, if a person were to use that and had both POD HD and DT, do you see one as being better or easier than the other? I imagine it differs according to preference and also whether it's for recording or a live performance with amp and PA, but I'd love to get your take on this.

Thanks, Colonel, for another thought-provoking post! You always explore the nearly endless possibilities, then share. As for mic models, are you sure? Are you saying that, when L6 linking, what I see on my HD LCD is not what I'm getting? Since it uses the pre-amp, cab, and stomp boxes from the HD, why would it not use that mic? This doesn't seem to make sense. Also, are any of your multitude of DTs a DT50? I'm wondering what it might be like to chain my DT25 and my DT50.

Wow! That looks pretty slick! I'm wondering if my Tascam US-800 D/A interface, which I used to flash my DT50, could also send the MIDI commands. I spose all you have to do is obtain one of those 3rd party apps referenced above and hook it all up and run the app. But being that I have a POD HD500, there is no pressing need...

Apparently it takes much longer to get an open box item from MF, at least in some cases. My much-anticipated DT25 head FINALLY arrived on Thursday, June 18 in a carton that looked like the Sherpas had taken it on 2 round trips to the top of the Earth before putting it on the truck. I was a bit freaked when I heard something rattling inside, but it was just the power cord and everything was fine. No, not fine, mint. I have to say that aesthetically, this is one beautiful and very cool piece of gear. I find the DT series Tolex to be very attractive, and that's of course true here. But the whole package, front and rear panels, rear mesh, the deluxe handle, big foot pads, small size, solid build, light weight... it's a head-turner in every way, really. But what blows me away most is the tone! I'd tested a DT25-112 once before and felt that it wasn't in the same league as my DT50-112, but now I'm thinking I was wrong. Even though the power tubes and buffers are different, the two amps tones are very, very much nearly the same. I went with my favorite patches (POD HD500) and found that in Full Volume Mode with the master at 12:00 and switched to triode that the tones were nearly identical, except that they were a bit sweeter. Not much, really, but just enough to become magically perfect. This is, of course, because I'm playing quietly in a small, quiet room and really couldn't open up my 50. With my 25 I'm now totally getting what I want!!! Oh YEAH! I'm playing through an old Fender Bandmaster 2x12 bottom that is loaded with the OEM DT series speaker, Celestion G12-H90, and a Celestion Greenback. This bottom made a world of difference to me with my DT50, so it's no surprise that it's perfect with the DT25 too. (I would recommend to everyone who might be still searching for their tone(s) who has a DT that they should try playing through 2 speakers, but to be careful if they pick greenback as they're only 25 watts.) My tones are now sublime at low volume, and I can't wait for my next jam or audition so I can really open this little cutie up. I'm getting killer crunch, that refined classy kind that I seem to only find with Lin6/Bogner. Sustain--OH YEAH! At these setting this puppy just sings! Noise floor? Fahgettabotit! I scarcely hear anything with my ear 2" away (though I haven't tried voice 3). Actually, if I hadn't found such a good deal on my second-hand DT50, I'd have gone DT25 from the beginning. But now that I have both, no way would I part with either. The DT25 is a dream amp for smaller spaces and lower volumes, and the DT50 has the power and the headroom needed for some situations. With production now ended (GC told me that DT25 will resume but not DT50), the supply is now limited, so not just anybody with the money can own one anymore. All this talk about Helix, but I'm having a hard time imagining that Helix could replace the DT. I don't think it can sound better, tho it might sound the same, but most guitarists will still need an amp regardless--that's not likely to be changing. Helix and StageSource compared to this?--I dunno, I think the DT's gonna win out. Could the DT be the next Dumble? The next revered, sought-after amp that people are willing to pay obscene amounts of cash for? Could all of us who own one today be sitting on tomorrow's DT gold mines? I'd like to think so, but one thing I know for sure, they will never be as affordable as they are right now. So I've got an open box item. That means that somebody bought it, most likely at the recent insanely discounted price, and didn't like it. I feel so sorry for this person. I appreciate that there's a learning curve with all of the dream rig gear, but it boggles the mind to think that anybody would give up a piece of gear that's so tops in every way. So, mystery person whoever you are, from the bottom of my heart, thanks! Your loss is my gain... My HUGE gain.

I'm very pleased to announce that I was able to snag a DT25 head, open box (level 1-mint) from MF yesterday for the stupidly fantastic price of $396. Now that I've basically learned how to get what I want from my DT50 and HD500, I can't wait for the DT25. I know it's got less noise floor, which is important to me as I practice in my basement, and the lower power will help with that too. I'm thinking I've totally got the best of both dreamworlds now, cuz the DT25 will handle most situations but I'll still have the big guy when I need him. It's crazy what good deals can be had right now on the DT's. I've been checking the internet furiously ever since the selloff began, and FINALLY got the best I could hope for! As I understand it, the DT25 will come back from hiatus but not the DT50. A year's time from now, even 6 months from now, you won't find a lot of people willing to give up any DT model not in production. And if Helix is any indication, any new amps would be solid state or VERY SPENDY or both. Rock on DT25! Rock on DT50!

Whether or not the DTs are a repair risk compared to other amps is a judgement call you have to make. You might want to take into account that when in a support forum, you'll find that most folks came here due to a problem of some sort, so you'll obviously see a sampling of players skewed toward repair issues. I have heard from Line 6 authorized techs that the don't see a lot of DT amps, which is a positive indicator. Good luck!

So is the 4CM less noisey at low volumes than the L6 link? I don't suppose it's possible to hook it up both ways and switch between them...?

So what was the problem with it?

Glad to learn you got your amp back! I always thought that 4CM was for folks that don't own DT's and want to use the HD's modeling with their amp. Do you like that with your DT50 better than the L6 Link? If so, why?

Ouch! Does that apply to guitars too? (I have 15 guitars, 11 are foreign, which I love to modfy, but have been asking myself this very same question lately) Everybody here is right--there is no b.s. I've heard things about a few service centers that made me conclude that they don't know how to fix a Line 6 amp. Some repair centers won't work on Line 6 equipment due to the complexity (which makes me wonder if their techs can read schematics). So the concern about a repair is not unfounded. On the other hand, there's a guy in these forums who scarcely played his DT50 in the first year due to unusual circumstances, and after the warranty expired he had an issue, and Line 6 took responsibility to repair his amp anyway. So the company cares about doing right by its customers. If you're fearing a catastrophic malfunction on your dime, with Line 6 you might have a better chance not to be SOL. So if you buy it new you get a solid 1-yr warranty. If you buy it used you get something that's been road tested. By far, most electronic failures are in the 1st 3-6 months or after 5-10 years, so buying used may lead to statistically fewer repair needs, albeit sans warranty (unless it's less than a year old, in which case it's transferable). I'd say you should play one before deciding, if at all possible. I must say I'm impressed with your heat mitigation modifications!! I'm a bit phobic about heat myself, and since I pulled out my speaker from my combo to pair with a greenback in a 212 closed back cab anyway (an awesome move on my part, if I may say so myself), i jerked the amp chassis as well. It's now sitting upside-down on the speaker cab, so heat from the tubes will rise up AND AWAY from the rest of the amp. That said, I'm unaware of anyone anywhere having a heat-related issue with a DT, or any combo amp for that matter. It seems stupid the way they build them, I know, but apparently it doesn't cause the problems one might suspect. Good Luck!

I found I could get close to awesome with my HD500 but never quite arrived. It's splendid for recording DI, though! Then I got a killer deal on a second-hand DT50-112, which really opened up a door for me. I did have some serious ups and downs because I play so quietly in my basement that the noise floor was very bothersome. But when I took the amp to an audition nobody noticed, including me! So that's the deal with the noise--it's the same volume pretty much regardless of how loud you set any of the volume or gain knobs, and the main variable is the voice you select (1-4) But if you have 2 speakers, the noise decreases some. and if you use triode rather than pentode it decreases some more. i'm now on day 2 with a greenback and the oem speaker. this is very similar to what the dt50-212 has for speakers. i'm really pleased, and the greenback only has 2-3 hours on it so it's not even broke in yet. if I were you I'd check out the DT50 thoroughly and see if you like it. The patches you use for FRFR will need major tweaking with a guitar amp, even the DT, so you might leave your pod at home and just see how you like the amp. for versatility it is second to none, especially with a pod hd, but there is a learning curve. Be forewarned: That DT50-212 is a very heavy beast.

DT50 + Greenback + G12H90 day 2: Holy cats, man! I think this might be the sh1T...

Well, I finally got a chance to listen to my greenback today. I put it and my G12H90 into my fender bandmaster 212 cab. except i didn't want to mod the cab, which has 8 studs for each speaker, or my celestions, which have 4 holes each, so i had to make adapter rings. and then i decided to put in fiberglass. and while i was at it, i put connectors on the wires so i didn't have to solder. turned out to be a bigger project than i'd ever imagined, what with the t-nuts and counter-bores and all, but i'm liking it! with 2 speakers it's much less of a cone blast, with much better dispersal. the greenback is very, very close to a vintage 30, but in listening to the clips on the celestion website it sounded slightly better to my ear in some cases. and it costs a tad less, but is only rated at 25 watts. i'm now sounding a bit more crunchy and a bit more vintage, which is what i was going for. I've always preferred the sound of a closed back cab, I haven't tweaked any patches yet. I'm not sure how long it takes to break in a speaker, but if i keep moving in the same direction from where i was originally, it's gonna be real sweet!!!

I get some nasty pops too, depending on which amps. As Brazzy pointed out, the worst-case solution is to go to standby before switching. I wonder if this, from page 4-4 of the L6 LINK connectivity guide, explains your problem: About Preset Loading and DT50 Amp Settings Due to the higher voltage components utilized in DT50 amplifiers, you may find that not all amplifier changes can be instantaneous.* If you require the most seamless change between two POD HD Presets - for instance, during live performance - the simplest approach when switching Presets (or DT50 amp Channels) is to use the same amp Voicing switch settings for both. For those times when you want more significant reconfigurations between settings, here are some tips: *Note: Since DT25 amplifiers utilize lower voltage components, their setting changes are typically less affected. However, the following practices can be followed with DT25 amps as well if Preset changes are not as seamless as desired. Keeping Class A consistent between consecutively-switched Presets will help avoid the greatest potential for disruption. The Super O, Tweed B-man, Class A-15 and Brit Plexi J-45 share an aspect (their analog B+ voltage) that differs from the other POD HD Amp Models, which can also be a source of disruption. To minimize this disruption, limit the cases where you switch between one of these Amp Models and one of the other POD Amp Models. Avoid making setting changes within 5 seconds of each other, especially if you’ve included the Class and B+ voltage changes mentioned above. The DT50 circuitry can take up to 5 seconds to fully stabilize after such a transition, and making another change before then can cause disruptions that you wouldn’t hear if you waited slightly longer.

Thinking of it that way will get you to the correct calculation with speakers most of the time, due to how speaker cabs are typically set up. But it's Ohm's law that dictates: E=I*R, (voltage = current times resistance), and also Watts law that power = voltage times current, and also that voltage spreads equally across parallel-connected resistances but proportionally across serial-connected resistances (Ohm again, I believe). So who gives a rip, you ask? This comes into play If you have speakers of different resistances (ohms) wired together. In series, more power goes to the cone with more ohms. If you wire them in parallel, it's the opposite because you have more current through the lower ohm speaker, and that current is actually the predominant factor (power = current squared times resistance). So in a case like this, some calculations must be made to ensure that EACH CONE is not overpowered. The total power rating of the cab would be dictated by the weakest link, and its percentage of the cab's total resistance. Also, if the power rating among speakers is unequal, then you gotta look at the lowest power rating and go from there. So in my case if I buy a 25 watt greenback and pair it with the 75 watt (if memory serves) g12h90 speaker, my cab will not rate at 100 watts, it would rate at 50 watts, and that's assuming they're both 8 ohms and they're wired in parallel. If I bought a 16 ohm greenback and wired it in series with my 8 ohm g12h90 i'd blow the 25 watt greenback because I'd be whacking it with 33 watts. If I did that but wired in parallel, then I'd have more power in the g12h90 than the greenback and i'd be safe. Rather, my speakers would be safe--this doesn't speak to matching the ohms of the speakers with the output requirements of my amp (a topic I think best left for another day). SORRY FOR THE LECTURE! I NEEDED TO DO THAT TO BONE UP ON MY ELECTRONICS SCHOOL 1ST QUARTER THEORY AND SEE IF I COULD STILL REMEMBER. But as long as you stick to equal resistances AND equal power ratings and a customary wiring scheme, what you say is true.

...Just listened to the clips (on cruddy computer speakers, sadly). It's hard to tell how the Jensen would work in my rig because it's mostly the neck pickup in the clips, and I gravitate toward the bridge. But i'm intrigued. Maybe if I went with a cleaner speaker I could boost the gain a tad to get where I wanna be? I'm also wondering about pairing a greenback with my g12h90. it's only 25 watts, so it would likely break up more/sooner than a v30. listening to a/b's between v30 and greenback, i couldn't tell them apart. so i'm thinking that if the power rating isn't problematic, the difference in breakup of the greenback would either help or hurt my tone relative to a v30. since i'm going for crunchy townshend/ronson, i'd think it would be helpful. and what's the difference between the g12h90 and the g12h 70th anniversary model? wattage, probably, but what about tone? anybody? Because i'm a newbie to speaker selection. any help or advice on this aspect, or anything related to me choosing a speaker to compliment my g12h90 would be GREATLY appreciated. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!!! Mike

Thanks, Randy! That's surprising to me. I recall doing and A/B on spider valve 112 and 212 and the difference floored me! I was expecting it only to push more air, but the 2x12 was richer and fuller and more complex. Mike

that was kinda my intuitive take on the gh90 too. whatever speaker i get would be added to my current gh90. line 6 2x12 and 4x12 cabs use both, so i'd been kinda leaning that way as well, which would mean i'd get a v30. and the youtube above brought me back to that way of thinking because what i heard is mostly what i want more of. with my dt250-112 i'm very close, so adding a bit more texture would make it perfect, i think. hmmm--is the jury ready for a verdict, or is there more evidence in the offing?

Can't really tell which speaker is which for most of it, but i think i like the governor better. in this vid (thanks for the youtube connection, btw) the v30, to my ears, is way more detailed in every test. the governor seems muffled, subdued, lacking harmonics, etc. this doesn't speak to the combo of both, though...

Your saga is so intense! What's wonderful about it is that Line 6 has stood behind the amp from the get-go, even though your warranty had already run out before you ever contacted them. I don't care what anybody's personal circumstances might be, there aren't a lot of companies that would do that!!! What's horrific about it is, well, we all know what's so horrific about it--why TF can't they fix it?!?!?!? I've contemplated buying another DT every day since I saw they were liquidating them, but the nirvanic allure of the gigantic price reduction is unfortunately negated by that sobering reality and what it could mean to me. Still, hats off to Line 6 for standing behind your amp!!!

Those are some danged great answers, Steve! (and those questions weren't even the ones addressed to you) After reading, I realize that even with my oem cone, I've encountered the ice pick--and yes, now that I think about it, I felt it in my forehead too! But I won't mark this as answered just yet... Are you saying that the V30 would be a bit more of an ice pick than the g12h90? So how does your Governor handle cleans? I'm also interested in the Patriot Cannabis Rex, but the descriptions lead me toward the Governor as being a tad more crunchy... do you concur?

Wow! Glad I asked! But what exactly is "that icepick in the forehead vibe?" All I know is that I don't think I want any of it. Reminds me of 1950's psychotherapy or something. what's the deal with impedance mismatching--how far off can one be and get away with it? Also, in your esteemed opinion, is there much difference in tone relative to speaker impedance, i.e. can one hear the difference between a 4, 8, or 16 ohm speaker cab? Okay, so I wanna sound like Pete Townshend. Better yet, Mick Ronson. Overdriven with crunch, but not mud. Can't do the mud thing. But I don't want to lose that clean Fender sound in voice I of my DT50 either--need that for a lot of stuff, though I could make do with a LITTLE bit of dirty in my clean. I tend to gravitate toward a trebly-scooped kinda tone regardless of gain setting. I thought I'd get where I wanna be with Celestion, but now I'm definitely unsure...

Thanks, Steve! I hadn't thought of a different brand. Looked at MF and egad, Eminence speakers are getting all 4.8 or better ratings! The Patriot sub-brand seems to be the most popular. I've actually got the G12H90 in a Fender closed back cab, paired with a Utah speaker circa 1965 (re-coned). The Utah adds some high end, and I tend to roll that way, but it doesn't seem to have the balls that the Celestion has. I mostly feel like I need to tweak the treble down. Plus it's got less output so I can't hear it much over the G12H90--I'm not feeling like this is a 2x12 just yet.

Yes, that is possible. Whenever you change tubes you must bias properly. Other things could cause your amp to quit too, however. Did you check all the fuses? Did the tubes melt down?

Randy, nothing to be embarrassed about there (or should I just say you're not alone, me too, +1...) LVM changes things, and IMO usually for the better in lower volumes. I've been liking voice IV, though, and that seems better with LVM off. I'm gonna hafta try that tweed with the silver bells. I've always used pre's with no cab with my DT50--am I missing out? Say, you've got the 112 and the 212, right? Could you help me out and weigh in on my new thread? it's here: http://line6.com/support/topic/13889-celestion-g12h90-vs-vintage-30/ Thanks! Mike