mtreehugger

I've been wanting to add another speaker to my DT50-112 for some time, and I'm about ready to take action very soon, but I'm not sure which way to go. The easy option would be to pick up a DT25 bottom from my local music store, which would then give me a total of two G12H90's. Alternatively, I could save some money if I bought a Vintage 30 cone, then put it, along with the G12H90 currently in my DT, into a spare 2X12 cab I have. (This obviously would be kinda weird having the head actually be a combo w/o a speaker, but all I care about is the tone, and I might ultimately pick up a used head on down line to make it all nice and pretty.) We know that In the DT50 cab and the Dt50-212 they use both rather than one or the other. I understand that the 2 speakers are similar, but the G12H90 is custom-voiced for line 6. The Vintage 30 is of course the #1 selling speaker currently. Does anybody know what differences might I experience with one versus the other? Anybody? THANKS!

Okay, 2 days of playing and analyzing hence, and I'm unable to reproduce or experience either the sustain drop-off or that fizzy bummer. Instead, I'm getting tones I want (or at least I'm getting what I'm asking for). So I dunno--was what I was hearing me? Was it my ear failing, or me building crappy patches that sound good with a backing track but lousy when isolated? Or is there something intermittently wrong here? I'm leaning toward the conclusion that all is as it's should be. Part of that is because I've decided "to hell with my neighbors" and have opened up the volume a tad to get closer to the amp's sweet spot. And one other thing I found--that I didn't know until this week--is that switching to "triode" reduces the noise. It also reduces power by 50%. I've found that this helps with some tones. In triode function you lose attack, headroom, power, and the amp seems less lively. But for crunchy tones at a lower volume, it seems to dramatically reduce any fizzies, it allows for more sustain and saturation, and it even mellows my lower string riffs and stuff while somehow making them stand out better. (kinda like changing the laws of physics, that.) So I'm thinking I'll go pentode for voice 1 and triode for most patches using voices 2-4. When I play with drums, I'll probably go pentode for all, but for practicing I believe this is my ticket. Another surprise was that low power mode can really alter how the gain setting interacts with the tone. I was in voice 1 with LPM off and the gain up to 2:00, and I turned LPM on and all of a sudden I got crunch and saturation (after turning up the master, natch). It was like going from the Bassman amp to Dr Z by simply pulling out the knob and turning up the volume to reach the same loudness. That's huge to me, because it tells me that there are essentially 2 different amps for every amp, I just need to figure out when to switch power modes. Unfortunately, this can't be saved to a patch--an option that as of today I'd really love! Well, cyberspeedjunky, I hope you can solve your problem. Maybe some of this stuff I threw out there helps? If you uncover any more details, I encourage you to post them because the forum users are a helpful bunch, and resolutions (if not actual solutions) are often found here. Some easier than others, though.

Sorry to hear that! Does the DT have more breakdowns than other amps? I can't say--I have no opinion due to limited exposure. As one person noted elsewhere, you're going to see more people with problems in a support forum, cuz that's why they have them--to solve problems.

Okay, I can totally related to this! With my amp I've been contemplating the question "Is this amp, by design, normally so noisey that guitarists need to either switch to standby or voice/topo 1 between songs? You just answered the question "yes." At this point I am ready to conclude that my amp isn't defective or malfunctioning, a question that's nagged me since 2 days after I bought it (3 months ago). THANKS!!! One thing that might not be known--that I didn'T know until 3 days ago--is that switching to "triode" reduces the noise. It also reduces power by 50%. When I first got the amp I immediately discarded the notion of ever using anything other than pentode, but after recent experimenting, I've found that this helps with some tones. In triode function you lose attack, headroom, power, and the amp seems less lively. But for crunchy tones at a lower volume, it seems to dramatically reduce the fizzies, it allows for more sustain and saturation, and it even mellows lower string riffs and stuff while somehow making them stand out better. So I'm thinking I'll go pentode for voice 1 and triode for most patches using voices 2-4. Another surprise was that low power mode can really alter how the gain setting interacts with the tone. I was in voice 1 with LPM off and the gain up to 2:00, and I turned LMP on and all of a sudden I got crunch and saturation (after turning up the master, natch).

+1!

Hmmm, well then maybe we are in the same ballpark. I don't know if my fan is louder than yours or not, but it's just about totally drowned out by topo 3. If I turn the fan off or on I can still hear the difference, but the amp is definitely louder than the fan. If this is normal--and I'm not necessarily agreeing to that yet--ya gotta wonder why Line 6 didn't correct it with an internal noise gate or some filter caps or whatever. I've yet to find an amp so noisey. And mine, even with new tubes, seems to rather break up than deliver smooth crunch. Of course, I'm not playing at the intended volume (although my ears do ring when I'm done from standing in the cone blast). Maybe I should sneak it into work this saturday and crank the sh*t outta it? Or go audition somewhere...

Thanks, Randy! I'm gonna hafta get me a dB meter! Well, those readings would seem to be to be quite loud for an amp with no guitar plugged in, but you haven't calibrated... In my amp it follows that same pattern but I'd guess my dB's in voice I are double or more what I've got in standby. Voice I has also gotten worse during my 3 months of ownership. Voice 4 has more hiss than 1 and just slightly less than 2, with more buzz than either. voice 3 is crazy. When I tried my 212 Fender Bandmaster bottom the noise dropped too, so I'm thinking that's what you're hearing--the noise split between 2 speakers. From 20 feet it would be the same for either cab, but at 1 ft you're only picking up 1 cone in the 212 (I'm thinking).

Randy, thanks again for the INFORMATIVE post(s)! !) Do you have a schematic, and if so, where can I get one? 2) How's the noise floors in your amps? I play at a level akin to cranking your stereo about halfway, and the noise in my DT50-112 has been bothering me tremendously. I have white noise and ground buzz. I had it in the shop but the noise is still there. I've now bought 5 tubes, the most recent being a mesa spax7 for the inverter, and this seemed to take the edge off just enough that I could forget about the noise when playing. I've compared my amp to a DT25, a Spider Valve, MKII, a Blackstar HT40, and a Marshall DSL40C, and all of them are SO much more quiet than mine! I've never heard an amp so noisey, although to be fair, If I turn up the volume the noise does not increase in this amp the way it did in the Marshall, so the noise can be drowned out in a band situation (I think/hope). Recently I seemed to have developed the fizzys (as if I haven't suffered enough already). So just wondering, when you turn on your amps and nothing is plugged in and your volumes and gains are at zero, do the amps sound like really loud fans or even quiet air conditioners? THANKS! Mike

OMG!!!

Is it possible it's your pedal board? Just kinda thinking out loud here. I don't use pedals anymore, just my HD500. Are you plugged into the Hi or the regular input jack? You might try switching just to see? I'm stumped now. Saturday I started fiddling with the triode switch and class A--before it was always pentode and class AB. I was also exploring the differences between low power mode and regular. I went direct in and then via my POD and the L6 link. I was getting amazing tones anyway I set it, and was thinking I should buy more line 6 product. then after 90 minutes or so I started losing the sustain. I called it quits. Then yesterday I couldn't get a good tone for the life of me. Everything was all fizzy. Now wondering if it's LP Mode, tubes, or what? so frustrating!

Just wondering if your amp still does that. Yesterday I noticed that my dt50-112, after more than an hour of playing, wasn't giving me the same sustain. Lack of distortion too, but I mostly noticed the lack of sustain. I thought it might be the guitar strings or something, but then this morning I remembered your post, so I'm wondering if there's a connection. I'm going to see if it happens again today, and spend more time on the symptoms if it does.

No doubt the digital cable would be the safest/best, however, I did not have any issues with a standard mic cable. No doubt environment comes into play. I am now, however, using an AES/EBU cable.

Hey innovine, How's the noise in your DT25 lately? I played a DT25-112 last week and thought the noise floor was totally fine. I started another thread on the topic, which today is like #6 from the top or so. I also checked out a Spider valve and Blackstar HD40?, and those were fine too. I have yet to find any amp with anything like the noise I've got, but I've also yet to find another DT50 for comparision purposes. I'm working on a theory that only some amps have this huge noise problem, however, data is so limited!

I forgot to turn of the phantom power once with my POD HD and nothing happened. But they say don't do this with your ribbon mics.

Tubes can last anywhere from 3-6 months to several years. The more volume and distortion, the more hours per week, the faster they go. I bought my DT50-112 in February (used), and suspected that the tubes might need to be replaced so I bought a new set. It turns out the tubes it came with are fine, but it doesn't hurt to have a 2nd set. I would NOT say that you get what you pay for with tubes. It's really more of a personal taste thing for some guitarists. You MUST only use the Electro Harmonics (EH) tubes for the power tubes, and these must be biased to 36mv if you replace them (a matched set is required). If you use other power tubes, then the bias setting is no longer valid, and if you don't know what you're doing you might have a meltdown on your hands. Actually, if you don't know how to bias your amp you'd best take it to a pro because the high voltages in the amp can kill. A matched pair of EH EL34's is $32-$40. Your tech can sell them to you and bias them at the same time. For the 12AX7's you can use any brand, and there's nothing to bias so you can swap these yourself. I'm thinking of testing out a Mesa tube for the inverter position to see how I like it. There's another thread in here where Spaceatl says which specific tube he's using--it's a balanced inverter so it's technically not a 12AX7. (He is also not using the EH power tubes, but he's a guru, unlike us).

I'm not an expert, but I doubt there's a problem with your 12AX7's. Those aren't actually providing any gain or distortion--that's all done digitally. Your power tubes might be aging, though. There's mixed opinion on this, but I have a cooling fan pointed at the back of my DT50-112 because it just seemed to be getting too hot. Might be worth a shot? Hang in there and I'm sure more definitive answers will arrive. There are some genius amp gurus in this forum who no doubt will soon impart more technical knowledge than I can.

This is freeware by one of the forum members who's also a software engineer, correct? He did such a fine job I'm almost tempted to ditch my HD. Almost. What are the PIV HI/LOW and TIGHT/SMOOTH switches? I don't recall those being on my DT50...

I dunno, maybe I'm misunderstanding the question(s) and answers, but if I'm not... Why would you mess around with MIDI to control the amp when you've got a pod HD? The big deal with FW 2.x in the DT was to allow MIDI control so that guitarists who don't have HD pods can still get all the amp models, but it's WAY easier to get there if you already have an HD pod, which you do! All you have to do is connect the two via a mic cable and away you go! It's best if the mic cable is the special kind, with an impedance rating for digital data (sorry that the terminology escapes me at the moment), but a regular mic cable works just fine in most environments, especially if it's not too long. Once you connect HD to DT, the pod takes over. It switches automatically from studio direct to combo amp mode. Whenever you select an amp in the HD, the DT automatically switches its topology to match, and the amp's topology is recalled when you recall the patch. You can see the settings change on the face of the amp when you kick in different patches on the pod. You'll want to run the pre-amps and not the full amps in your patches. The firmware update doesn't really do a whole lot (besides allowing MIDI). It does give the amp more memory so that if you aren't using the pod it remembers more of the topology settings. Not a big whoop in my book. With the HD pod, at least for me, the update didn't change anything meaningful, so my opinion is that even if you don't have MIDI capabilities (which are necessary to perform an update should the amp have an earlier FW version), you can still get 100% out of the DT.

Well, replacing all 4 tubes unfortunately failed to surprise me. As I predicted, I've still got whoosh, hiss, and buzz. I put in a GT matched PI, a Mullard 12AX7, and two EH power tubes. I was surprised that I had to adjust the bias as much as I did--apparently these tubes vary quite a bit. But noise-wise there is no change (or it got slightly worse). The whole amp does seem a tad brighter and louder (which is good), and volumes in my different patches are less consistent with each other than they were. So new tubes equals new tweaks, I guess. At least now I'm absolutely certain that tubes are not at fault here. The noise is now to the point where I'm forced to use voice I whenever I'm not playing to a backing track, but even the noise in this voice, which didn't seem too bad before, is both annoying me and causing me to play louder. It's confounding for me because the L6 authorized repair center didn't cure the noise. He says he's done trouble-shooting, and says that from here the only option is to send it back to the factory. I may consider a different tech before sending the amp back to line 6.

Another discovery that I find unexpected came when I plugged into my ancient, beat up Fender Bandmaster bottom, which has two 12" Utah speakers in it. Not only did the noise floor drop off (perhaps as much as 40%), but I got more highs out of it too. This totally stumps me! If the speakers have more high end, wouldn't we expect the noise floor to increase? So did the load change from 8 ohms to 4 ohms reduce the noise? Or is it because the noise got split between two speakers, with maybe some wave cancellation working in my favor? The Celestion sounds better, though. Fuller. I thought you were using GT's? I tried replacing the 12AX7's with a GT and a mullard, but heard no difference so I put the EH's back in it. I'm going to replace all 4 tubes in one shot this weekend and see if that makes any difference, but I suspect that the tubes in there now are nearly new so I'm not holding a lot of hope. So the difference in the noise floors--If you can recall back to when you first got the DT50 with the original tubes, would you say that noise level is many times more than the noise level of the DT25? A subtle but noticeable difference is not what I'm hearing--I'm talking about a huge difference in noise between the 2 amps--that's what I heard. You alluded to as much, but with some gray area... THANKS!

After waiting 6 weeks I finally got my DT50-112 back, and it's just as noisy now as it was when I took it in. Being that my tech couldn't find any reason for the noise, and having heard similar complaints about the noise in these amps from other owners, I'd begun to wonder if playing at practice volume while hearing fizz and whoosh and buzz (and even before I plug in too) was just the way this amp was built. After all, it's a high-gain hybrid yadda yadda... Then I ran across a used DT25-112 at a local store, and found that this amp has about one-tenth the noise that mine does (and this would be in either LPM or regular mode). Even in voice III, which we all know is the noisiest, I practically had to stick my ear on the grill cloth in front of the cone to hear the noise. In other words, this amp has an appropriate level of noise (very unlike mine). At half the watts of a DT50, somewhat less noise is to be expected, but this is totally night and day, and my frustration level with my own amp is soaring. So before I ship this puppy back to Line 6 with angry letter, does anybody out there know if these 2 amps I've played are representative of their brethren? Are all DT50's noisy beasts while the DT25's are just fine? Or are some amps just plain noisier with no real explanation why? Or is my theory that something is wrong with my amp the best bet here? THANKS!

there's a range of s/n's involved. after the issue was discovered it was reportedly corrected for all subsequent amps. however, some of the old amps may be still in some stores. but if the issue truly is entirely stemming from bad/wrong fuses, it should be an easy matter to determine if your fuse is correct or not, and if not, replace it. you could just call line 6 tech support, give them your s/n, and find out.

I'm no expert, but if memory serves, when you turn the HD off or disconnect the L6 link your DT will return to wherever it was before the L6 link was operative. I'm pretty sure this is irrespective of what you did when using the HD, i.e. your amp doesn't "remember" the L6 link settings (but it might be worth testing to be certain if this is something that matters). Also, the HD takes over the DT's channel A, but not channel B. So what I do is use channel A to tweak my patches (unless it's an FX) because it's easier to reach, and bend down to the HD to save the patch before kicking out of it. If for whatever reason I want channel B, then I just kick the POD to a virgin patch or a patch with no amp. Generally I just use patches, though, because I use the modeled stomp boxes almost all the time.

You'll know right away if it won't work. Usually L6 monkey will see the DT, but if not you can coax it by using the drop down to change devices.

You lost 6 weeks for that, eh? Does seem out of whack, but on the other hand you're actually better off, I think. When the service center got done with my amp, I was told that TSB 059 was all about a bad fuse, and they'd replaced mine too. I was quite surprised and disappointed myself (being that I had a number of concerns that kinda weren't dealt with), but the important thing is having an operating amp. Apparently the defect was entirely due to some bad fuses. Most of those who found out their fuses were bad learned via resulting damages from over-currents. Boards and transformers went bad. You and I are actually the lucky ones because our amps didn't suffer those kinds of stresses. So my amp is still too noisey, but it doesn't run quite as hot, and the smell of burning electronics has abated. However, I'm still pointing a fan at the back side of it because I don't like the heat from the tubes on the boards above. Due to the DSP board being replaced, my amp volumes are a little different, so I couldn't use any of my patches (stored in my HD500), but that's okay because I'm actually doing better at creating patches with consistent volumes. I love this amp's tone, though I'm a bit surprised that when using the pre-amps the cleans and the high gains all kind of sound the same--I didn't find this when going studio-direct with my pod hd. I wish I had the 212 like you do, though!!! That extra speaker makes a big difference--maybe not in a miked tone, but hey, I play for myself.