mtreehugger

I have a DT50-112. Like mine, the 212 has 1 speaker plug, however, you have two 8 ohm speakers. These are either wired in series or in parallel to the one plug (ref. CipherHost's post above). So as far as the jacks are concerned, you have one speaker, not two, because you only have one 1/4" plug. So ignore where it says "plug 2 8-ohm speakers..." Further, your plug equates to either a 4 ohm (if wired in parallel) or a 16 ohm (if wired in series) speaker. Therefore you would not use B, that's for an 8 ohm speaker. So how do we know which way your speakers are wired? Maybe the owner's manual states, but it was quicker for me to check ebay, where, like you, I found 2 DT50-212's for sale, both of which have photos of the rear that show that your plug needs to go into "C," the 16 ohm jack. This would confirm your suspicion that they are wired in series. Don't use A or B, use only C (unless you start changing your speaker configuration--but in that case you should get tech assistance). BTW, the DT50 is built for live performance and has a very loud noise floor, although with 2 speakers that noise is less than with 1 speaker. I don't notice the noise at all when playing in a band, it vanishes completely. However, when practicing at home at lower volume it was absolutely driving me nuts!!! This is just the nature of the beast. Voice III is the noisiest, Voice IV has more ground buzz. So if you go to the "solo" or any of the Fender or Marshall amps you'll have less noise. Maybe throw a stomp box out front if you need more saturation? Switching to Triode helped quite a bit, and in some cases low power mode is helpful too. Ultimately, though, I picked up a DT25 head and am loving the sh!t outta it!!! The tones are identical to the DT50--I use the same presets in my POD HD500--but the DT25 is just a bit better suited for low volume practicing. My advice: Forget about the noise, Spend 15 minutes with it switched to triode to give it a test, turn it up if you can, and relax knowing you're one of the lucky ones to own this amazing amp.

They say: "Drawing from Yamaha's popular THR series amps comes the THR100H Dual guitar amplifier modeling head." So apparently they disavow any knowledge of Line 6, but why would that be the case? Do they continue to employ full and separate product development teams? And here's the question that's likely on everyone's mind: What if this baby uses Helix technology? Hmmmmmm. I think that once people start trying these products, it'll all come out in the wash, and the DT will still be the best tone machine.

that makes sense! if your mics are on center, then you can't put 2 mics on the same cone. and the g12h90 is basically a v30 tweaked for modeling amps.

If you read the literature, they tell you that the volume disparity between amp models is a deliberate design choice made for the sake of authenticity. IMO it's either a very poor choice or a load of B.S. to cover a design flaw. Either way, you have to set each patch's "amp's" (i.e. patch or channel) volume with respect to the other(s)' by lowering the high output one(s) to match with the Fender. BTW, I'm not a chick, this is my next GF once I track her down...

I assume you know about the pentode/triode switch and LPM. Could it be your power tubes? Are they stock? Is one pair biased hotter than the other? I would imagine that no 2 amps are ever EXACTLY alike, but would not expect a highly noticeable difference either... BTW, I'm not a chick, that's my next GF once I track her down...

I haven't had a chance yet to hear two G12H90's together, but will in about 2 weeks if MF can stick to its expected delivery schedule (which is actually up to Line 6--Please make us some more DT25 cabs, folks!!!!) I almost bought a V30, but after careful listening at the Marshall site I decided that the Greenback had just a bit more of what I was looking for in my tone--and man, that was $110 bucks well spent!!!! From what little I know, though, I think there's much to be said about not using 2 of the same cones. I think it just gives a bit more variety and texture, which to the ears translates into fullness. But with so many variables, as always, tone is in the ear of the beholder. I used to hear so much praise about V30's, and they sell so many, that I just assumed this was the speaker of choice. But lately I've been hearing from folks who don't like them. I'm curious--is it the "icepick" narrow cone blast thing that has you thinking you'd not use yours?

I think it would suck and I don't think you'd spend much time with it, but who knows? I've spent a lot of time with my HD500, full amp sims, and FRFR, but quite never got there--although I think it's fabulous for recording--just not quite good enough for my ears live. Now I'm loving my tone with my DTs using the pre's! And I love the addition of a Greenback to the OEM speaker! The setup you describe would color the tone rather than being FRFR because the DT will color the colored tone coming out of your HD. This gets much more muddy than you'd think. I say this after trying my HD thru my Fender Dual Showman Reverb, which is essentially a Twin but in head form, not a combo. It's cleaner than any DT model, IMO. The eminence speakers may be a bit less of a tone colorer than my cab, though, and our ears likely differ, so it's totally worth a shot if you can afford to be proven wrong on your hunch. You also have the option of bypassing the DT's preamp and going into the DT via the FX loop, which might be more to your liking! As for Cab sims, I'm now using them whereas when I first got my first DT I did not. Both are valid setup options because with so many tweaking options you basically get there either way. I'm actually quite surprised that cab sims work with Celestions, but they do. BTW, my image now shows my dream GF--If I can just somehow track her down!

With what you're reporting, I'm now doubting you bent a pin. If a person is at all careful, it's next to impossible to bend a pin. If you are in a coastal area where the air is salty from the sea, your electrical contacts would probably tend to pick up more contaminants and corrosion than average. when you re-seat your tubes, you are actually cleaning those contacts, so doing what you did would be a good thing, and one that you probably should repeat if you encounter those same symptoms in the future.

Why would you need the FX loop? I'm thinking the chain would simply be guitar-POD-amp, but without true bypass the pod could suck some tone--IDK, I've never tried. I suppose you could put the HD in your DT's FX loop... then there's the 4CM (I've never tried either). DT Edit--I still haven't tried that, cuz like you, I just wanna play. So how does that work at a gig? What gear do you bring? Or do you just set ChA and ChB and then unplug DT edit (which leaves you with 2 channels/2 tones)? Now that I think about it, though, aren't you basically getting the same thing with DT edit that you were getting through your pod? As I understand it, the DT's preamp and the HD's are identical. The only difference is that DT edit allows you to turn "boost" off and on--am I right or is that misinformation? I totally relate to that "tweaking black hole." the HD500(x) has so much to play with, and it's so easy to get too much of whatever you're trying to get. Brittle cleans, grungy crunch, fizzy sustain... I went though all kinds of insane before they released HD 2.x firmware because I couldn't dial in what I wanted, and even after that it's still been an evolution. But as soon as I got the DT50 it got a whole lot better! So yeah, if I hadda pick one and didn't use any onboard FX, it's DT (plus DT edit, I;m sure) hands down! As for the tweaking black hole, I think that's a rabbit hole most guitarists fight with one way or the other. We're either constantly changing guitars, amps, pups, stomp boxes, etc., or we have modeling gear. What I'm concluding after over 4 years with HD and 6 months with DT on top of decades of playing is that tone is like grass--it's always greener on the other side of the fence. Playing too, I think. Heck, one time I recorded a loop of leads that I thought was pure tripe--I was just farting around just so I could hear what it sounded like volume-wise outside my house. When I came back in and heard it for like the 8th time I was like "wow, I AM pretty f-ing good!" That's because I wasn't playing anymore: I now had the luxury of just listening. We're our own worst critics, usually, and when it comes to tone we always want a bit more of this or a bit less of that while we're playing. But for the people who hear us, musicians and otherwise, I'll bet they can't even tell the difference between tones that we get that we love and tones we hate. Which I think explains why I always want to tweak my tone just a little more, yet my D-I-pod recordings sound f-ing spot-on tone-wise to me. Well, that was quite the rant. And it may not be your experience, but if 2 months from now I read that you've hooked your L6 link back up I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

Have you tried using the HD500 for stomp boxes only? You know, no amps, just distortion/compression/delay/etc. That's one thing I've thought about if I were ever to pick up a Marshall or whatever, I'd probably go to just one pedal--my POD HD. So then the true bypass question comes into play, right? I doubt I'd do this though, because the kind of versatility and control I have via the HD can't be had with a conventional amp (except maybe one of those sick new H&Ks).

Which is OEM? (soft/medium/hard)

Wow! He really did a Class A job for you on it! That couldn'ta been cheap...

Just curious--where is your pentode/triode switch set, and does the amount of hiss change when you switch it? (this is a power tube thing, not a pre-amp thing, but still...)

Hey Robbie, Just finding this now... I resolved my problem by sending it back to MF. In exchange, for about the same money, I got a PRS SE Custom 24 and an Ibanez Iron Label "s" that has 3 Dimarzios standard. Much better tones, and prettier too. After all of the above, I deemed my JTV defective. There are enough credible-seeming players (not to mention Steve Howe) using the JTV that they can't all be like mine. Too bad. Great concept.

swing_girl, the only way that re-seating your pre-amp tubes could make any difference would be if there were a bad connection. It is possible for the pins or their mating contacts to become corroded or tarnished, compromising the electrical connection. This is rare, though, unless your amp is over 5 years old. But if you are close to the ocean and your amp is exposed to salty air, then it's much more likely to occur. However, re-seating the tubes would tend to either eliminate static or other noise, or possibly boost power--if a pin wasn't making contact before and some of the signal was getting lost (can't say if this is even possible, as I'm not fluent in the operation of the pre-amp circuit). It would not be likely to reduce hiss and volume. The only scenario where that could happen is if somehow your connections were originally fine, but when you re-seated the tubes you either bent a pin or somehow introduced dirt or other contaminants into the electrical connection(s).

I love the tweed look! I've contemplated doing this to my DT50-112 as well, not only for the weight but also because 2+ speakers are better than 1!!!! For a time I had the chassis out and sitting upside down on my Bandmaster cab, which has my G12H30 and a Greenback. I planned on buying or fabbing a cab for the head. I was even getting used to working the controls upside-down (mostly using L6 link anyway) when I stumbled on the deal of the century on my DT25 head. So the DT50 chassis went back into the combo, but only for now. I've also got a DT25 speaker due to me from MF that I locked in at half price, and when that arrives I'll have all kinds of rig choices. What I'll probably wind up doing is buying another Greenback for the 2x12 and using the DT50-112 with the external speaker. I'll at least try that, anyway, but I still think seriously about converting it to a head like you did. Thanks for sharing!

TSR 059, as it's been explained to me, has to do with a bad fuse that allows over-current which then kills transformers. Only Line 6 can tell you if your amp is in that series. They have in fact stood behind amps that were out of warranty, although that may only apply in special circumstances (I can't say for certain on this). Being that your amp's been fixed already, it may be a moot point but worth checking into. Also, you should get a full breakdown of what they fixed (i.e. did they replace the culprit fuse?), and your repair center should satisfy you as to questions of future reliability. One other key point is that the Line 6 warranty is transferrable if sold used by private parties. If you have (or can obtain) the original receipt, and no dealer sold it as "used," you can get warranty service for 1 year from the original sale date.

that all makes sense, but the volume disparity is huge, right? it's like double the fader value from the one clip to the other, so it's like from 9:00 to 12:00 on a knob. this probably isn't a fair test either, but what if you turned up the HD's volume to equalize the clips? or swapped the amps around (those volume control adjustments don't produce linear results, and may vary from amp to amp). or not, if you don't think it's worth it. i just remembered that the DTs have a boost setting that you can't get at except via DT edit, so I may start poking around with MIDI myself. Plus, yeah, I was just playing and wondering why it sounded so compressed...

awesome job--thanks!! this is pretty interesting stuff, that's for sure. but i need to know, how do you explain the huge difference in volume between the samples? unless that happened during "mastering" or in other words was a result of outputting one recording at a higher volume than the other, then there's a variable here that might actually be the cause of the difference in sound. after doing my best to match the DT volume with the l6 link volume, i agree that the l6 link one seems more compressed. but what if that's because the speaker was not being adequately driven into the responsive sweet spot on that take? or, what if it's your recording rig's responsiveness differed due to the volume difference when recording? one thing i found--other before me, actually--is that when using the l6 link it's better if the pod volume is at half mast or below. that's another damn variable, eh?

I always use L6 link too. I'm wondering if you found any discernable difference other than (possibly) volume in your testing. Here too, Brazzy, I'm wondering why you aren't using L6 Link, and if there's any way you can A/B these connection schemes, and if so, what do you hear? I'm inferring that you have a DT50, correct? And you're using the full amp/cab/mic sims in your HD, in studio/direct mode? This is then fed to the PA at line level--why not use the balanced output from your pod instead? And your DT (50?) is functioning solely as your stage monitor, fed by the full amp/cab/mic sims?

I've been wondering if there's any difference between option 2 (LVM on, amp in standby) and POD HD in studio direct mode when using L6 link. In that scenario, I myself would just use the POD and leave the DT back at home. I read reviews on MF that the Altos were very loud. With DTs it's better if the HD master is at 12:00 or less, but when using the line level outs into a FRFR amp I had much better results with the HD master maxed. (don't know if that helps)

I gotta wonder what the Original Poster is thinking at this point, now that we've taken over his thread and assimilated it into our (Borg) collective.

Nice rig, CipherHost! Very interesting. I'm inferring from this that DT50L:+ Dt25R doesn't work. I've never in my life tried stereo (or played with someone who uses it), for one reason because I don't see how an audience could hear both sides properly in stereo, except maybe for those among the very few smack dab in the middle who are listening intently. Am I wrong about that? Have you ever hooked it all together as a mono chain? That's what I had in mind, actually. Is that a valid scheme? So with the Altos, you feed them from the POD HD and the DT50's speaker is active? THANKS!

Yes, that should be a definitive test. Lordy! I get lost in the HD's footswitches, I can't Imagine all of that! (tho I have seen larger pedalboards...)

I'm not sure about this... but don't the reverbs follow the fx loops? And I find it surprising, but logical, that the mic sims are last--does that hold true going to the speakers? One omission under "linked" is the HD500 reverb, which can be active at the same time that the DT reverb is active. (Also don't see the HD fx loop under "linked," but i actually feel like I'm just nit-picking by pointing that out). THANKS!