Stratman82

If you're still experimenting with this I've found (after a sound engineers recommendation) that the Flip Top model is the flattest amp sim in the unit for guitar. Can still be paired with any or no cab. It works well with my raw hotplate lineout and IMO is more transparent than the blackface models.

Bump...I'm looking for the same thing but its not worth starting a new thread over. Ideally a pedal case wide enough for HD500x + additional wah pedal + 2 or 3 other standard sized pedals to supplement the pod. Any UK based users on the forum with recommendations?

Ok so a kind of interim report I guess for those that are interested... I've got an OR15H now and still have the DT25 combo. I'm using the DT's speakers as a cab. Thats partly to save cost in the short term and partly so the cab speakers are a controlled variable. My experience so far is based at whats possible at low to medium home level tones. I've not been able to crank up to gig volume. Firstly, most will be pleased to hear that the DT25 stands up very well overall. The tones that come naturally to the Orange's single channel from edge of breakupo clean to AC/DC to Slash level gain are all present more or less across the DT's amp models. I'd actually say that (without attenuator use) at very low, whisper quiet volumes the DT maintains its articulation a bit better than the Orange. Thats with the DT in full tube mode and the master volume down low. Articulation and clarity are similar when an attenuator is used and I can turn the volume pot on the Orange up a bit. The Orange has a nice simple interface and I'd say it reacts better to volume knob changes on my guitars (Strat. Les Paul, FLying V) than the DT, in general. That means one option on the Orange is setting to the most gain I'd ever need (about 1-2o'clock) and using the volume knob for rollback. That is equivalent to switching between the Hendrix, AC/DC, Slash and Metallica patches on my podHD. No reverb or effects on the OR15 (obviously), but there is an effects loop for the podHD or pedals. The effects loop is tube powered. The DT25 probably trumps in this area for those that use a lot of effects as the L6 link is a clean, single lead interface. The tones per gain level which I can acheive with the Orange amp alone (as listed above) are equivalent to relatively complicated patches on the DT25 where I've had to use simulated pedals to acheive the tone I want. For example, an Angus Young tone is native to the Orange with gain set at about 12o'clock whereas I need to use a "tube drive" pedal with a JTM45 to acheive a similar tone with podHD patches. I've also found that in general reverb is less of a necessity with the Orange which has a natural ambience that fills the room in a way that can only be replicated by reverb on the DT. So Orange wins in these regards for being simple and requiring less digital trickery. I'd also say that overall the Orange base tone is slightly more organic. Difficult to quantify I know...just a tad more "3D" with slightly better note separation. These sort of benefits, I guess, are always cited by the tube camp in tube vs digital debates. Again, difficult to objectively quantify but theres a difference there. Overall theres not a lot in it. The DT25 wins for versatility when paired with a podHD. The DT25 alone is closer to the OR15H in terms of versatility. But the Orange loses on connectivity as it requires more cables to attach to the podHD via its effects loop and would require a 4CM for boost pedals before the preamp. The Orange's more organic tone wins purely on sound.... it's got that visceral rock mojo that seems to go with British tube amps at louder volume. In that respect it could be considered a bit more "fun" to plug and play. Overall a 10-20% better tone if I absolutely had to qualntify it. Mabye its a draw.......I'm seriously considering holding on to the DT25 as well now.... If I could choose just one though it would probably be the Orange (plus my podHD500x). You only live once.

The above suggestions are good. The "Boost comp" pedal (which is designed to simulate an MXR microboost I think) is pretty crap....volume boost is minimal with gain all the way down so to get a good boost I've had to raise the gain which adds too much OD and colours the tone.

Oh yeah, I think what swung me in favour of the THD Hotplate is that I heard Joe Bonamassa uses one!!

I've got a THD Hotplate (8ohm version) that I've used with my DT25 quite extensively and over the past week with my new Or15H... Its a great piece of kit with some limitations. The downside of the THD in particular is that it's not switchable bewteen 8 and 16ohm impedance. If your only using it with the DT25 then you'd only need 8ohms anyway, plus you could technically still send it to a 16ohm cab as well (as the impedance rating is higher) but that may slightly reduce cabinet output. Because each model is only 1 impedance it's also cheaper, particularly if you buy on ebay. I got a 2nd hand model in good condition on ebay for about £150 (new Rivera Rockcrusher £399!). I researched it all quite extensively prior to buying and the consensus from amp experts and designers is that attenuators are safe when used properly. The amp head doesnt know what its attached to directly as long as impedances are matched...8ohm output on DT25 to 8ohm rated THD Hotplate. "Wear" on the tubes and transformer is as high as it would be without an attenuator and the gain and volume knobs all set the same. However.....I think the use that you're putting it to determines if its a worthwhile purchase or not. If you're using it only for "bedroom" volumes i.e. TV level volume then you'd generally need to set the hotplate at -16db attenuation or beyond in 25watt full power mode. In my experience the hotplate maintains great tone up to around -12db attenuation, ideally -4-8db for "perfect" tone reproduction. In my experience with both the DT25 and OR15H using the hotplate for >12db attenuation (i.e. -16db mode) is NOT WORTH IT. At that setting tone quality deteriorates considerably to the point where tone on both amps is actually better in full power mode with the volume (master volume in DT's case) down low to reduce volume. So what I'd suggest is that the Hotplate is excellent for home use if you can manage slightly louder volume levels at home (-12db to -4db attenuation). It's perfect for stage use where you wouldn't be attenuating beyond 12db anyway, i.e. turning the volume up slightly between the start and the end of the night. If it's only for home use at very quiet levels (-16db and beyond), in my experience and after much trialling, I'd stick with the amp alone and use the DT's master volume.

Think we've hijacked this thread so I won't post hear again, sorry.

Agreed. Nice pun! I'm just favouring the amp that a) sounds best within the remit of what I'm looking for (all my pod patches are geared towards the range of tones that come naturally to the OR and b )is as simple to use as possibles to facilitate guitar playing.

I've had it 2 years. The bottom line... I've personally recently played through two valve amps in the same ballpark price wise that sound and feel better than the DT25, including my new OR15H. IMHO the DT25 is simply not the best tube amp in its class/ price range. Perhaps one of the most versatile, but not without a lot of hard work and frustration. I'm not trolling or having a go at Line 6, but how many top guitarists use line 6 amps? Agreed many use their digital gear. But it obviously works well for you, so that's great!

Thanks for this, all interesting and relevant. I really love the podHD..was playing with a strat through my SRV patch today and the thing is just incredible..to the point where I agree a tube amp in some regards is not actually necessary. I may well expand my gear in the future with a SS preamp rig as you suggest. However I don't agree with all of the above as I've already found an ideal low-"er" wattage real tube solution in the OR15H I purchased earlier this week. This thing is the dogs balls! Even in half power (7 watt) mode I do need my THD hotplate for around 8-12db volume attenuation in my flat but tone is well preserved. Single channel non-master volume all tube amp with simple 3 band EQ and no infernal tweaking required!! Plug and play. Using a sweep of either the volume knob on my guitar or the amps gain knob I'm not exaggerating when I say I can go from shimmery cleans to classic rock to Slash-esquel hard rock to heavier 80s Metallica without any special tweaks...all within the remit of a single channel. For me, usability, tone and feel are all superior to my DT25 which I've kept for honest comparison in the short term. I've even set up a hybrid solution for playing the OR15H through headphones if I need to: amp - hotplate line out - podHD aux in through podHD Flip Top pre (very flat response) with v30 4x12 cab sim. Sounds very like the amp through a speaker. Probably a bit OTT with this method but shows what's possible. As much as I love Line 6 for their modelling..... I'm glad to be rid of all the glitchyness, fuss and multiple patch requirements with a DT involved. Maybe if all I did was play at volume on stage but even so I genuinely prefer the Orange tones to all my best patches, as great as they are.

I use Beyerdynamic DT880 250ohm version. Excellent cans, very comfortable for long sessions and I'd thoroughly recommend them. Quite neutral. Semi-open back design. I've got a set of Beyerdynamic DT770s 32ohm as well which I use for listening to music . Bass response much stronger but they are far less neutral and probably not so good for guitar monitoring. Closed back and tighter fit which also improves sound isolation but probably not as comfortable for prolonged use.

Fair enough, I accept thats the case. When I last trawled these forums regularly back when the DT25 had just come out there was debate about exactly what was going on in LVM. It seems the situation is clearer now, although there is always a slightly vague assertion in these types of posts that the amp offers "addittional amp modelling". I've seen no clear indication of what proportion of the resultant "sound" is coming from the tubes vs modelling. I'm not sure if anyone from Line 6 has ever clarified exactly how the amp configures or controls the influence of digital/ modelled poweramp tone vs whats remains of the tube tone in LVM. Magic I assume!

Cheers, thought that was the case but needed to check. I'll prob just use the ambience type effects in the loop anyway as I tend to prefer amp distortion over pedals.

Well said!!

Thanks very much for your input TheRealZap! I think the method you describe above, even if it works, would be too fiddly so I'll go with the studio monitor or headphones option and sell the DT. I guess the only issue with going FOH direct from the HD500x (on the rare occassions when I play live) would be having a decent on-stage monitor for small venues in the absence of the DT25. The decisions made- I'm selling the DT25 and getting studio monitors. I will also replace with a low wattage tube amp just for fun so I've got that option at home when circumstances allow!! Agreed.

Sounds like that home setup would be more suitable for me too. I agree that thats the difference when going from HD500 alone to DT25 in full power mode....albeit I'd expect more of a clear "improvement" that justifies the DT's status and price as an "all-tube amp". But the LVM sound I'm getting is really significantly fizzy and crap, to the point where I wonder if theres something wrong with the amp! Its certainly not an expected one given the quality of my HD500x patches.

Ok that makes sense then, thanks. I guess if the analogue circuitry is still in play you would expect the tone to be different in LVM (although I'm surprised how different it is from the fully digital tone direct from HD500x, which I really like). It does make the amp even less of a good fit for me though as most of my time is spent playing at volume levels more within the realms of LVM than full power mode. I can accept that tone tweaking and parameter adjustment is necessary when making the jump from HD500x alone to DT25 in full power mode but a 3rd set of patches required for LVM is the nail in the coffin for this setup.

So are you saying we are acheiving poweramp distortion and real tube influence on tone in LVM with full amp model patches from the HD500? It would be useful to know how much influence on tone the poweramp tubes are having in different modes i.e. 100% in pre amp patch/ full volume mode, x% in LVM with full ampo model etc etc. The L6 connectivity guide is vague...in the section on Direct Out (4-6) it states " Low volume mode on, amp on = direct out signal consists of the "full" amp model and the analogue amp", whatever that means. Thanks for your clarification.

I appreciate your point of view but disagree with some of it. In LVM with full amp patches the setup (podHD + DT25) is an all digital, pure modelling rig. According to all official and forum logic the tubes and analogue circuitry are being bypassed. IMO it should therefore function like a digital amplifier in that the signal should be identical to the studio monitoring signal via headphones, with volume adjustments possible from very high to very low not affecting tone (other than the effect of volume on hearing perception as you point out). This, I assume, would be the case if I used something like an L2t as a speaker. The difference I am hearing with and without L6 connected is night and day. As I say, almost like a raw line out signal. Line 6 advertise this aspect of the rig (LVM) as allowing "whisper quiet" practice all the way through to stage volume. Mabye, but seemless and effortless it ain't. In terms of practicality and effort required, I might as well have 3 different rigs for quiet, medium and loud volume. I agree though that the DT25 probably is the wrong product for my needs at present.

I'm in the process of simplifying my rig by phasing out my DT25 which, for all its versatility, adds too many layers of complexity when switching between playing situations. I plan to use my podHD500x in two situations 1) Standalone for nighttime playing via headphones. 2) As a pedalboard (effects only, amp sims off) into the effects loop of a non-Line 6 tube amp. I'm not entirely clear how the podHD works in situation 2, particularly in terms of effects pedal "placement" within the chain.... As delay, chorus, reverb and suchlike are usually placed after the preamp, placing them in the effects loop makes sense and they should all work as per normal. Agreed? However, what about distortion and boost pedal models?? These normally run in front of the amp so how well would they work in the effects loop? I'd ideally use the podHD for all effects rather than a seperate standalone OD pedal between guitar and amp.

Yes its a great feature. Accurate enough for my purposes, but I'm not recording.

Great...in other words, the DT25 doesn't work effectively as a PA/loudspeaker when all I want it to do is (bypass the tubes in LVM) and reproduce the full amp patch tones I use with headphones direct from HD500x. I wouldn't say they are "very different uses" at all- I just want to use LVM to monitor my full amp patches at lower volume without using headphones. So, a seperate set of patches and parameter tweaks for HD500x alone, DT25 in LVM and DT25 in full power mode! I think Line 6 need to reconsider their "versatility" in favour of streamlining and usability for regular people that want to use the same gear in different settings. That is after all meant to be one of the main benefits of digital modelling.

Really? Are you absolutely sure given the preamp is digitally modelled via software installed on the amp? I'd have my concerns....http://line6.com/support/forum-18/announcement-16-end-of-support-for-legacy-products/ That said, I'm sure a re-build would be possible if the worst happened down the line, but it wouldn't be the same amp.

Totally agree and I think this is largely what my (somewhat rambling) previous posts have been getting at. I love the podHD500x as a standalone and think its a great piece of kit. Its complicated but if you standardise some parameters between your patches its not really that difficult to get great tones with "full amp" patches. Its what I expected having migrated over to podHD from the excellent podfarm software. I agree the native presets on the podHD models are dire. Where this kit falls down for me is in conjunction with the DT25 which, despite others views, I have found to be quite glitchy, even in supposed "plug and play" low volume mode. I'm not a sound engineer/ tech and its just too difficult to get patches sounding "better" through the DT25's power section. Yes the HD amp models were based on great real life classic amps, hence why the modelling in full amp mode sounds so good. But, IMO, adding a 1st generation hybrid tube amp into the equation with pre amp patches and all the gain stage and other parameters requiring adjustment is a step too far. I'd rather have Marshall, Orange, Fender etc do that for me when it comes to playing through a proper amplifier.

Oh so true and so frustrating! It's this aspect of the podHD > DT25 combination that massively detracts from its usefulness. Many on this forum make excuses and allude to "stellar versatility" etc but there are some parameters that should just configure and work automatically. My latest issue is that, for some reason, as soon as I connect my amp (in LVM) to the HD500x via L6 link, the sound of my setlist of full amp patches changes immediately and very obviously. More fizzy/ gainy...almost like a raw direct out signal, this heard via the amp itself or headphones. I've no idea why this happens. As soon as I disconnect the L6 link the patches are back to normal (via headphones). No doubt the reason for this is some ingeniously crafted interaction aimed at improving versatility and allowing me total control over my rig.