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ddmilne

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About ddmilne

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  1. The advice was followed, it was demonstrated also at the music store who is now hearing what so many of us who have brought them back are complaining about and the difficulty we are having getting around it. Line6 is also getting an ear full of the  responses you guys think are appropriate. There are differences in how you are using the helix and the way the rest of us were hoping to us it. Know that we have just ventured into the HX effects unit and the same problem exits with it. I , along with many others in the forum are not trying to deliberately mock the Helix. But for the price tag we feel we should see as much effort put into the sound it produces as went into the interface cosmetics and editor capabilities. You guys don't like to hear that, I get it. But hundreds of us don't share the same experience or opinion at the moment. We would all like to see the Helix work , especially in a live rig setup. I am sorry that you dont or wont understand

    1. DunedinDragon

      DunedinDragon

      Actually I don't know if there are "hundreds" in the same camp as you.  I'm certainly active not only in this forum, but the modeling forum on TGP as well as the Helix Facebook group.  And there certainly is a camp, and always has been from day one, of users that prefer to use the Helix with traditional tube amps and cabinets, and have been doing so since day one of the Helix as well as on the POD HD series.  There are clearly some that don't get what they expect from the system in most part because they don't follow the general methods and advice of people that have similar setup to theirs.

       

      Clearly the VAST majority of Helix users are using full range speakers and have been highly successful and satisfied with the investment both in studio and live applications.  The same is true of users with more conventional setups but with some understandable limitations on what features apply and how they would need to be used.  None of this is mysterious and all makes sense if you understand what the technology is doing and how it's meant to be applied.  But after several years of working with this stuff I've only come across a handful of people that simply couldn't achieve what they wanted to.  No one can answer why that is other than the person using it.  But given the success rate of the Helix among the folks that have bought it there's clearly no inadequacies in the fundamental design and implementation of the system.  I and the thousands of others using the system don't use it because of it's interface alone.  We gig with it weekly and have for several years now in venues as large or as small as you can imagine with great sounds and results.  Otherwise the Helix could never have been as successful as it has been in the marketplace.

       

      I can assure you I'm no novice and I clearly understand what makes for great sound and great performances.  I've been doing it on stage and in the studio for more than 5  decades across the United States, Europe, and Asia.  So I'm not being fooled by a slick interface or nice looking design.  If it doesn't work for you then there's no fault in going to what does work for you.  But I can guarantee you along with tens of thousands of happy customers that there's no deficiency in what the Helix provides given what it is, and what it does...which is a modeling device.  That's it's core audience and it's core application.  And it does it as well as any others in it's category, and I've owned them all at one point or another.

    2. ddmilne

      ddmilne

      Listen, I am sure that there are tons of satisfied customers, and i would surely like to be one of them. The majority of the users that I have come to understand that are very happy are those who are deeply intrenched in Music approaching Metal.  I have to cover a wide range of genres. The possibility of having a device to store and cover that range of tones is very appealing. But what I and the musicians in my area have experienced is that LINE6 Overdrive and Distortion Effects are rather shrill at stage levels in small to medium Venues. The Larger the room , the less offensive it becomes. There is also a astrong agressive attack that is picked up from pick action. We might all very well be doing something truly wrong, and I have taken steps this past few days to determine if I have and where i have. The Experts at Long and Mcquade have the Helix I used and have heard what I am talking about and under the same conditions I have tried to use the board. They agree that it isnt suitable for a live show given the P.A and Monitor we are using. What they are doing is looking at the Helix set-up to detemine if and where I (and many others in my area) went wrong. My frustration hasd a lot to do with the fact that this was on loan to me to make sure that it worked, and i spent days spinning my wheels and Line6 wasnt getting back to me. Many of you felt that I wasnt taking your advice, and that simply was not the case. Others directed me to youtube Line6 experts who replied in kind that they do not use the OD and Distortion Effects for the reasons I had stated. In once instance It was recommended that I use an AX8 as the favored live rig. Anyways, Yes, The Helix is a well developed interface and I do believe that as a recording tool you couldnt do much better. You say that you use the Helix live. How often are you encorporating the Overdrive / Distortion effects with amp models, and how do you find the output with rhythm at low mid and high gain overdrive settings using OD/DIST effects? Can you achieve the transparency of a real TS808 or Tube Driver and the like? If you can, I would like to know the secret. Again, my frustration turned into panic and that came out in my correpsondence with all of you. For that, I appologize. I am hoping that Long and Mcquade can deliver an understanding to me so I can get to use the Helix. I think I may have said this before, But I also had a Headrush and it too has issues with OD/Distortion effects and the IRs are terrible. At some point I am sure I will get over the hurdle.  But I cant put down 2000.00 without some degree of confidence that I will continue to use it for years to come.  I am sure that there are a lot of things to avoid in seteting up the Helix as a live rig. It would have been a great advantage to have had Line6 to publish this and save a lot of time for its customers. But, it is what it is. I certainly have no wish to get anyones back up in further discussions. It doesnt take much internet and forum research to see that a lot of users share the same reaction to the HELIX. Just as there are more than a few thousand satisfied customers. If I had the information I am looking ofr I would write and sell a book on the Helix and make some money.

    3. DunedinDragon

      DunedinDragon

      I cover a very wide range as well including rock, jazz, blues, funk, acoustic ballads, and country and have never experienced the issues you're referring to as far as combining any of the Helix distortion pedals to any of the amp models.  I commonly use the TS808 (Scream 808), Klon Centaur (Minotaur), Teemah, and ProCo Rat on various patches with no problem.  Generally speaking I don't use the pedals for rhythm parts and depend more on the amp for that type of overdrive.  I do use the pedals for leads patches that I use the amp's natural gain for overdrive with no issues at all.  I do have one specific patch which is based on a Joe Walsh tone in which I use a HiWatt amp with a Teemah distortion pedal for rhythm work and add a Tube Screamer for the lead.  Again no problems at all with that patch which I've used consistently in various venues over the last year or so.

       

      In that case I have the HiWatt configured with Drive=3.8, Bass=4.0, Mid=6.0, Treble=5.5, Presence =3.8, Ch Vol=9.1, Master=6.0, and deep parameters are all stock with the exception of Bias which is set to 7.0.  This is the amp only with no stock cabinet.  For this patch I use my Les Paul Standard with Burstbucker II pro pickups.  The patch doesn't use a noise gate and is set to Auto for Guitar In-Z.  I have a volume pedal as the first block of the signal chain.

       

      I use a Celestion Redback 412 closed back IR mix of a MD421 and R121 mics with no hi cut or low cut

       

      The Teemah is set to Gain=5.4, Bass Cut=2.9, Treble Cut=6.2, Clipping=Up, Level=4.0.

       

      The TS808 for lead is set to: Gain of 5.2, Tone = 5.7, Level = 4.7


      My final Parametric EQ has a high cut of 9.6 Khz, and no low cut and no other adjustments to any frequencies.

       

      This is a dry patch with no reverb or delay.

       

      I set my Helix master volume at about the 11 o'clock position which roughly measures at a -6db line level on the 1/4" out.  My XLR out is set to MIC level and is not affected by my helix master volume knob so it's sent at full strength based on the configuration of the patch levels.  This tends to be fairly consistent with the levels coming into the board from the other inputs including vocal mics.

       

      On stage I'm using a Yamaha DXR12 attached to the L/Mono out on the Helix with the DXR12 volume level set at noon (unity), and I have no DSP contouring options turned on, and it's configured to not have any high pass sub-woofer filters engaged.  On stage the DXR12 is positioned behind me on a half-height speaker pole.

       

      Our band's PA consists of a Mackie ProFX 22 mixer attached to two FOH towers each tower consisting of one QSC KW181 subwoofer with two KLA12 line array speakers.  I've also used this patch successfully on several other PA systems both line array and standard powered speakers, as well as in one venue in which we simply depend on stage volume for the instruments and don't go through the PA except for vocals primarily due to the fact that the PA is a passive system with a centralized power amp and isn't sufficient for dealing with the instruments accurately.

       

      Hopefully that's enough information that you can compare it with what you're doing to see where the difference lies.

       

      Here's a simple video we took of that song during a rehearsal to give you a feel for he sound.

       

  2. ddmilne

    Muddled Distortion and OD

    I can get great amp sounds ay clean levels only, Any amp overdrive or distortion when playing any Rythm is a muddy harsh blend, No amount of filtering gets rid of It. IR;s do not help. This will be my last post on this forum, and some of you will be happy to hear this. Apparently the only thingsome of you want to hear is that the Helix is the greatest. There is a reason why Youtube clips only show guys paying Lead against a backing track. Try playing Rhythm with crunch, drive and heavy tones without sounding like a mathematic result. If you cant achieve some level of transparency and string separation, what is the point. Another weekend wasted trying to filter out the offensive freqeuncies and crossover and no good result. If you havent anything to offer other than deflamatory remarks , keep it to yourself. Line6 needs to hear the truth so they can do like the rest of us in manufacturing and work on continuos improvement. The goal of multi effects pedalboards should be to not sound digital , but as near true to real life reproduction. The Helix is being returned to the store today.
  3. ddmilne

    Live Rig Set-up

    Over the past week or so I have gone from blasting Helix to making headway. It , for sure , is a lot of work. Can we have a discussion that pertains to rattiness on overdrives and getting clear tight sounds out of most amp models. I have finally had some success and I am encouraged. But I could use the benefit of everyones experience in getting to understand what parameters have the best affect with bring clarity to the amp models and distortion models. I guess I am still struggling with warming tones up, but no where near as has been the case when I started. So I am not bashing the product , it has tons of great features.Also, I am presently using a powered P.A monitor form L&M that is apparently full range. SO we are not dealing with the amps. But I do need to find out how to run this as a live rig . Thanks to everyone that has seen past the frustration and focused on providing me with constructive feedback.
  4. ddmilne

    FIZZ

    Agreed, there are more than a few from my age group that feel that way. I on the other hand, making my living from automation and controls, want to take advantage of this capability in a live setting and produce a pleasant and corresponding tone fitting the music I am trying to replicate.
  5. ddmilne

    FIZZ

    Anyway guys, I am on my way, I will have the Helix back in my hands tonight ti do a side by side test between HELIX and Headrush. Although I like the sound of the Headrush, I am going to give the HELIX a second look with the proper device. I have also ordered anew FRFR powered speaker for future endeavours. I prefer the interface of the Helix over Headrush , especially with the overall access to paramters and the diversity of the effects, some of which are better than Headrush. As fars as the stores are concerned, in some areas the Helix is out of reach of most peple so the focus for the store isnt on being experts with L6 Helix. I have passed on everything I have learned to the store and they will run with it with future L6 customers. Thanks Phil for staying wiht me in spite of my remarks about L6. I am sure I will ask for more advice, but it will be only in the interest of expediting the learning curve.
  6. ddmilne

    FIZZ

    For your information, I have responded and tried all of your suggestions. Some of you had excellent suggestions under the right circumstances. It is clear that most everyone who has success with a Helix has a sore spot for those of us who havent got there yet, and are frustrated by it. I have repeatedly said that I was running through the effects return of an amp and that I was either using the Hot Rod or the Grandmeister deluxe. Some have commented that the Hot Rod doesnt have an amp in , and it does and always has. This is where I do blame line6 for not being upfront to the fact that these rigs will not run with amp and cab sims and the like through the front or effects return of a tube amp. I have had the opportunity to take your suggestions with me to Long and Mcquade where I was able to test these out through a powered monitor. The difference is day and night. But as far as sounding natural, close, an exciting development, but not quite there yet. So I took a headrush home under the same circumstances and got a much more natural sound ( Using the same powered monitor as I did with the Helix in the store). The drawback with Headrush is that HELIX has a more complex and usable interface when it comes to scribble strips, equalization and cab paramters, and much more disctint overdrive and distortion model selection. The headrush has a better sound model for the TS808. If I could put the headrush tone into a helix board I would have the very best. That being said, I am going to work out another trial with the Helix alongside the Headrush now that you have all educated me where LINE6 failed to be upfront. I would tell you that you are going to run into posts like mine, I garauntee it. Slamming us for being frustrated with a product isnt any help either.FOR SURE LINE6 NEEDS TO BE CLEAR AND CONCISE ON WHAT HELIX CAN RUN THROUGH and WHAT IT CANT DO- in my opinion. The guys at long and Mcquade were also surprised to see and hear what has been the issue wiith Customers who have tried Helix and why they have returned units complaining about the same thing. The very first thing peolle do in a music store is plug them into an amp and try the presets out. If they are not being told that they need an FRFR monitor and time to tweak high and low cuts- what do you expect? Anyway, I am on my way with the HELIX and I am sure that you wont hear from me again except to save me some time locating how to do something. Thank you to those who got back to me and expressed how they misunderstood what I was experiencing and why this was happening.
  7. ddmilne

    FIZZ

    Yes it is the sixth time I used this forum. I have tried low/HIgh Cut and Everything EQ. I have used evey guita impedance, Guitar Pad, master volume, you name it. And overall there has been improvement, but nothing that I would use in a live setting. In fact, it is painfull to the ears after a while. It takes place in the form a a repeatable fizziness to overdrive an distortion sounds that gets worse with OD and DIST effects added in. I also found that effects placement has a dramatic effect on sound quality. When this all started I could use any amp+cab functions. Some of the suggestions have resulted in that not being the case anymore. I dont know who does or doesnt work for Line6 on this forum. But this isnt going to be something that can be solved altogether by tweeking this or that parameter. It is a firmware issue line6 needs to solve. There are pages and pages of the same complaint on the internet. I would like, hope, to see that Line 6 is working on the problem. So far, I cant get an answer from them even after submitting a ticket. Enough said. If there is a method to resolving this intellegently I am all ears and would be extremely happy to follow it. Like I said, it is almost there, but I cant get rod of it altogether and it is annoying. I imagine as annoying as my posts are to some of you. And to those who have made good suggestions, references to videos. I sincerely appreciated you taking the time to try and help me out.
  8. ddmilne

    FIZZ

    This is a shout out to Line6 concerning the Helix. You did a great job in setting up the interface so that it could useful and intuitive with scribble strips and tons of other ground breaking options. But, it is clear from the thousands of complaints about "apparent digital clipping", "fizziness", bright pick attack, which are all elements of the same problem, that fixes need to be forthcoming. I would like to stay with and buy outright the Helix if these things are fixed. Presently, I have one that is being rented to me so that I can see if it is going to work for me before I put out 2000.00 dollars. Now I know some of you on the forum see this as complaining , but I just spent almost 60 Hours over the past week and a half learning how to get near good tones without getting there. I did everything that was recommended and followed the most popular experts on youtube. Still the problem is there. LINE6 Please, look at this issue and see if improvements can be made. Regards
  9. ddmilne

    Fizzy Distortion/Overdrive

    I have had good success with cleaner amp models but with high gain amp models, by the time you get anything warm it is too bassy. When adding distortion to the mix cant get rid of the fizziness and eventually everything just sounds too processed.
  10. First, my apologies if I interpreted your original post the other day as anything but genuine frustration with getting Helix to work... sometimes it's hard to distinguish those who are really looking for help, from those intent on stirring the pot. So again, my apologies. 

     

    You mentioned above about warming up the tones and attack... lowering the input impedance (found in the input block) may help with that. I used to do that quite a lot with the 500X, not as much with Helix, but I have a couple of patches where it helps. Lowering it too much gives a kinda "dead" sound, and sometimes it won't play nicely with certain FX, but its worth a try.

     

    Hope that helps.

  11. I am bypassing the preamp and goind direct into the effeects return using the amp as a power amp. I did find out that the effects pedals before or after the amp model had a rfeal impact on sound. Also, I used 10band EQ, Low/high cut and IR after the amp and adjusted global eq hig cut with some success. If I could get rid of the digital clip and fizz and warm up the tones and attack, this woould get me on my way. Knowing what paramters to use ahead of time would be great. I had a promising experience with a marshall tone today that was almost there. There are some features of the Helix I really like and I would like very much to learn how to get the most out of the sound quality for live shows. The other units like Headrush and Gt1000 are lesser versions of the Helix but easire to use.  I ahve a week wiht the unit I have on loan from the store before I have to make a decision to buy it outright. So any help is very much appreciated.

    1. Show previous comments  3 more
    2. cruisinon2

      cruisinon2

      Using a parametric EQ with a very narrow Q will prevent you from cutting out frequencies that you don't wish to attenuate. You'll never isolate one pure fundamental frequency, but using as narrow a peak as possible will minimize that effect. 

       

      If you set the Q first, then boost the output, you can scroll through the frequencies to isolate the spot that's most objectionable, then roll the output back down, and that should give you a fairly narrow cut. 

       

      Did you try playing with the input impedance? 

    3. ddmilne

      ddmilne

      Most of the time I use a Gibson LES PAul Classic. What I am finding now is that if I use AMP +CAB on more than a few modules the clean tones are good and full until you add any OD or distortion from the helix. It woul be great if they had in the editor a way to trap out specific frequencies because the objectionable sound I would like to remove is reasonably consistent and tends to be bright. If you try to use any EQ you end up eliminating wanted freqeuncies along with the one you want to eliminate

       

      Tried input impedance , but it made matters worse.

    4. cruisinon2

      cruisinon2

      You mentioned above using an IR  in your signal chain... if its a third party IR you can apply EQ, but you're stuck with whatever mic they used. Using  the stock cabs, you have a choice of  mic models, and distance. Some mic models (especially the ribbon mics) apply a much darker color to your sound, and may help eliminate some of the harshness you're hearing.

  12. I have come to the point of complaining after months trying to get answers from lin6 and from a ton of forums. I did have some success today by placing all effects afeter the amp, OD/Distortion before tham models, using 10 band EQ, Low Cut High CUt and global settings. I imagine there are a million scenarios but the order of effects seems to have a dramiatic effect on the amp models. The Digital Clipping and Fizziness is the most prevelant item to be able to get rid of. Like I said , I am getting some headway, but if any of you have a tried and true method to smoothen out the signal to avoid the fizziness and digital clipping to achive a warm tone consistently I am , at least now, a lot more encouraged. I have to say on a postive note that the scribble strips and monitor screen , title editing are an asset for live performances and Line6 is the best at this. I would push so Hard If I didnt want Line6 to be successful. Manufactures of units like these , I think, need to provide more insight up front so as to direct newbies to a good tone. So, yes, my future posts will stick to seeking advice. For now, my major concerns are avoiding harsh tones, best effects order, and how best to cut out unwanted frequnecies. Oh, I also used IR , played through the effects loop of the Fender its a lot better, but I could still stand to remove more of the attack and harshness 

  13. ddmilne

    Helix effects and drives order

    What I found myself is that the only effect that shoudl be ahead of the amp is the distoriton models. For whatever reason, effects before the amp color things in a bad way. You also need to use EQ and Low/High Cut features along with global eq to get rid of the harshness and digital clipping
  14. ddmilne

    Helix Setup and Harsh Tones

    full amp modelsw
  15. ddmilne

    Helix Harsh Tones/ offensive replies

    I was able to get some good tones out of amp models that were cleaner in performance like the fener type amps, but medium to high gain amps were discontinous , severely grainy or similar to what happens when a noise gate is set to high.
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