Pitch Glide and EXP pedal not going to 0%

[Onomatopoeia]

Hi guys!

 

I'm using the pitch glide and the exp pedal on my POD HD500x to do the whole whammy thing and it's working quite well. The thing that bugs me though is that the mix of the effect doesn't seem to go to 0% while having the exp in heel position. The result is that I'm getting a chorus type sound instead of no pitch glide at all.

 

Is this possible to achieve or is it just how the pitch glide works?

 

I have tried to calibrate the exp pedal.

 

Thanks!

 

/Danne

[duncann]

This was an annoyance for me with the HD500X's pedal. It appears to be the same problem you're having.

 

And yes it is possible to achieve this. It's how it should work.

 

What I had to do was occasionally recalibrate the pedal. I know you said you did this. But another problem for me was recalibration sometimes took multiple tries so that the pedal actually goes from 0 to 255.

 

Another thing to check is the tension of the pedal. Use the allen wrench to adjust. It could be it's set too loose for the pedal's own weight and is slightly falling.

[Onomatopoeia]

This was an annoyance for me with the HD500X's pedal. It appears to be the same problem you're having.

 

And yes it is possible to achieve this. It's how it should work.

 

What I had to do was occasionally recalibrate the pedal. I know you said you did this. But another problem for me was recalibration sometimes took multiple tries so that the pedal actually goes from 0 to 255.

 

Another thing to check is the tension of the pedal. Use the allen wrench to adjust. It could be it's set too loose for the pedal's own weight and is slightly falling.

Thanks, and that was also my thinking. I Have a vague memory of some guy posting something about "filing" the rubber pad on the pedals heel to accomodate for this issue. Allthough, wouldn't that process be undone by recalibrating the pedal?

[duncann]

I've heard of people suggesting to file some rubber off the piece that's nearer the front of the pedal to make the pedal switch easier to engage, but never the heel piece.

 

I think you may be right that recalibration would basically undo any material removed, making the material removal pointless.

 

Might want to try blowing any dust from underneath the pedal as one last thing to try before calibration.

[Onomatopoeia]

Doesn't matter what i do, I still get a chorus-sound whenever the pitch glide is engaged. have recalibrated the pedal. The wierd thing is that it shows a value of 0.0 (no pitch effect) but you can still hear that the pedal is on since it changes the sound drasticly (I'm using it with bass).

 

Anybody else getting this?

[duncann]

Now that you mention it, I do recall hearing a flange, phasing, or hollow type effect simply because the pitch glide is there and turned on with completely neutral settings. I wonder if it has something to do with a slight delay being present when turned on, something to do with DSP usage. Some effects do do that. I remember a section of MeAmBobbo's guide uses this principle as an advantage when using dual cabs so the cabs are not so much out of phase with each other.

 

If you have the patch, I can try it out and see if I get what you're hearing.

[Onomatopoeia]

If you have the patch, I can try it out and see if I get what you're hearing.

What would be the easiest way to send you that patch?

[duncann]

Just zip it, or just change the extension, and attach it to a post.

[Onomatopoeia]

Just zip it, or just change the extension, and attach it to a post.

Ok I feel like a idiot, but don't I have to upload it somewhere do do that?

[duncann]

Ok I feel like a idiot, but don't I have to upload it somewhere do do that?

 

No worries.

 

Click the more reply options button. Then you'll see a 'the browse...' button to select the file from your computer and finally the 'Attack This File' button.

[Onomatopoeia]

So here it is. Like I said, it's set up for bass and it's indended purpose is for playing along with Tool songs, hence to amount of effects (not on at once so shouldn't matter), but trying it out with guitar works to i guess. Any suggestions for improvement is allways appreciated!

AKG +1oct.zip

[duncann]

So here it is. Like I said, it's set up for bass and it's indended purpose is for playing along with Tool songs, hence to amount of effects (not on at once so shouldn't matter), but trying it out with guitar works to i guess. Any suggestions for improvement is allways appreciated!

 

Tried the patch with my bass and I get the same thing you mentioned above about the pitch glide affecting the tone when enabled even though the pitch setting is neutral. It's a phasing kind of effect. I also notice that when the mix is turned to zero, this effect goes away.

 

Not sure exactly what's going on, but it seems to be something with the pitch glide itself and it being placed on one of the two paths. I suppose it could be a bug, or it could be designed this way for some reason.

 

You could move the pitch glide before the path split, and it's somewhat better then, but it still colors the sound despite a seemingly neutral setting. But that will change the idea of two different tones per path you want.

 

Not sure if there's any way to work around this.

[Onomatopoeia]

Thanks for your input. I guess I just have to step up my tap dancing skills...

[jandrio]

the patch is set in such a way that the "PITCH" is 50% @heel position, 75% @toe position...
mix is not altered by EXP-1.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/cgnlx3zlwn5acp2/AKG-patch.png

[duncann]

the patch is set in such a way that the "PITCH" is 50% @heel position, 75% @toe position...

mix in not altered by EXP-1.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/cgnlx3zlwn5acp2/AKG-patch.png

 

But in this case, 50% means no pitch shift at all, 0.0. So even if mix is 100%, the pitch glide shouldn't do anything, or at least it seems that's how it should work. Seventy-five percent is +1 octave.

[jandrio]

...The thing that bugs me though is that the mix of the effect doesn't seem to go to 0% while having the exp in heel position....

[duncann]

 

...The thing that bugs me though is that the mix of the effect doesn't seem to go to 0% while having the exp in heel position....

 

 

Lol. You expect someone to go all the way back to the distant original post? Just kidding, obviously. I rightly feel stupid now. Looks like I misread the original situation.

 

However, increasing the mix at the same time as the pitch will produce a slightly different sound than increasing pitch with mix at 100% all the time. It still remains that even if the mix is left at 100%, it shouldn't make a difference, but it does.

 

Increasing both pitch and mix at the same time might be what DannedeBoer could be looking for though.

[jandrio]

...Increasing both pitch and mix at the same time might be what DannedeBoer could be looking for though...

 

 

true :)

[Onomatopoeia]

But in this case, 50% means no pitch shift at all, 0.0. So even if mix is 100%, the pitch glide shouldn't do anything, or at least it seems that's how it should work. Seventy-five percent is +1 octave.

THIS is what I ment. Sorry for using the wrong terminology! I Want to be able to turn the pitch on and NOT get any pitch shift until I move the EXP!

[duncann]

THIS is what I ment. Sorry for using the wrong terminology! I Want to be able to turn the pitch on and NOT get any pitch shift until I move the EXP!

 

So just to reiterate, there are two ways you can do this, while avoiding the unwanted tone coloring this effect seems to have:

 

1. Assign the pitch glide to a switch and turn it completely off when not using it. Assign only the pitch parameter to one of the expression controllers.

 

2. Leave the pitch glide on all the time, but have either EXP1 or EXP2 controlling both the pitch and mix. The pitch from neutral to +1 octave, that's 50% to 75% on the controllers tab in HD Edit, or as displayed properly on the device itself, 0.0 min and +12.0 max. And the mix, using the same expression controller, from 0% to 100%. Doing it this way might sound slightly different than number one above.

 

Unless someone else sees another way to make this effect completely transparent when not in use?

[Onomatopoeia]

So just to reiterate, there are two ways you can do this, while avoiding the unwanted tone coloring this effect seems to have:

 

1. Assign the pitch glide to a switch and turn it completely off when not using it. Assign only the pitch parameter to one of the expression controllers.

 

2. Leave the pitch glide on all the time, but have either EXP1 or EXP2 controlling both the pitch and mix. The pitch from neutral to +1 octave, that's 50% to 75% on the controllers tab in HD Edit, or as displayed properly on the device itself, 0.0 min and +12.0 max. And the mix, using the same expression controller, from 0% to 100%. Doing it this way might sound slightly different than number one above.

 

Unless someone else sees another way to make this effect completely transparent when not in use?

So I have been testing this out for a few hours and this is what I figured out:

 

1. This "fenomenon" is not as noticeable when placing the pitch glid first in the signalchain (especially the split)

 

2. When having it's mix on 100% (and pitch 0%) the sound seems to be the most transparent, BUT HOWEVER when you turn the mix lower the pitch glide colours the sound more and also feels louder when around 50 %

 

3.) It only works this way when the effect is placed first in the signal path - placing it after the split (dual signal chains) it somehow colours the sound even more, regardless of mix is att 100-50%

 

I think this is really wierd! I now have the pitch glide first in the signal with the mix att 75%, which i found to be somewhat transparent while stil maintaining atleast some of the low end from the bass. The whole purpose of the dual signal chain was to keep the low end but the effect doesn't function that way for me....

 

And yes, I tried changing the different inputs and such but nada.

[duncann]

I've noticed pretty much everything you point out above as well.

 

In the case of when placed after the split, the pitch glide "weirdness" is now only being applied to one-half of the signal with an eventual mix of that one-half and another signal that doesn't have the "weirdness", which I suspect is some sort of phase shifting, making things worse.

 

When it's before the split, it may not be as pronounced because the phasing is only happening internally to the pitch glide effect, not being combined with anything else.

[Onomatopoeia]

I've noticed pretty much everything you point out above as well.

 

In the case of when placed after the split, the pitch glide "weirdness" is now only being applied to one-half of the signal with an eventual mix of that one-half and another signal that doesn't have the "weirdness", which I suspect is some sort of phase shifting, making things worse.

 

When it's before the split, it may not be as pronounced because the phasing is only happening internally to the pitch glide effect, not being combined with anything else.

What if I would place something to change the phase? Isn't there one of the EQ pedals that can do that?

[duncann]

What if I would place something to change the phase? Isn't there one of the EQ pedals that can do that?

If that's what going on with the pitch glide, you could take a look in this section of MeAmBobbo's guide: http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/cabsMics#dualCab-phase

 

It could certainly be worth a try.

 

Messed around with this a little. In your patch, you don't have any blocks left, so I took the digital delay and tried different EQs in various positions, Path A and B. The studio EQ in path A seems to minimize the effect the most, but it's still there. At least when some of the other effects are turned on, it helps to mask it.

Edited March 9, 2016 by duncann

[Onomatopoeia]

It could certainly be worth a try.

 

Messed around with this a little. In your patch, you don't have any blocks left, so I took the digital delay and tried different EQs in various positions, Path A and B. The studio EQ in path A seems to minimize the effect the most, but it's still there. At least when some of the other effects are turned on, it helps to mask it.

Hm thanks for trying to help. I will try this out a bit myself but I do need those effects so I probably have to compromise a bit with the Pitch glide.

[Onomatopoeia]

I'm btw using the bass model pack, so your results may differ a bit if you don't have that instaled!

[duncann]

I have the bass pack too. Makes an absolute world of difference when using the HD for bass.

[Onomatopoeia]

I have the bass pack too. Makes an absolute world of difference when using the HD for bass.

Indeed. Clean tones are good. Getting distortion tones is hard and just getting a bit of "grind" is really hard.

[duncann]

Indeed. Clean tones are good. Getting distortion tones is hard and just getting a bit of "grind" is really hard.

 

I seem to be always chasing the cleaner piano-like bass tone. Haven't gone after any sort of distorted tone with bass. But I will say that making a bass tone on a digital modeler, and in particular the HD, is so much harder than making one for guitar, at least for me. I don't know why that is, but for sure it's something to do with the instrument itself. I'm always finding something not to my liking when making a bass tone. Always. And it's always been unfixable. I like playing the bass a lot, but making tones for it not so much.

[Onomatopoeia]

I seem to be always chasing the cleaner piano-like bass tone. Haven't gone after any sort of distorted tone with bass. But I will say that making a bass tone on a digital modeler, and in particular the HD, is so much harder than making one for guitar, at least for me. I don't know why that is, but for sure it's something to do with the instrument itself. I'm always finding something not to my liking when making a bass tone. Always. And it's always been unfixable. I like playing the bass a lot, but making tones for it not so much.

Getting a bit of topic here, but have you tried out the 410 cab for the GK? I find it sounds rather "thin" while matched to the GK amp. I find it sound better with the Ampeg for some reason.

[duncann]

Getting a bit of topic here, but have you tried out the 410 cab for the GK? I find it sounds rather "thin" while matched to the GK amp. I find it sound better with the Ampeg for some reason.

 

I always preferred the SVT Brt with 4x10 Rhino and 47 cond mic. Haven't tried it with the GK. I like the 4x10 over the 8x10 Beast because the Beast sounds like it has a big hole somewhere spanning a large frequency chunk. Plenty of low end with that cab though. The 4x10 is a good compromise. It lacks some low end, which can be compensated for by jacking up the bass control on the bass guitar, but provides that fat chunkiness the 8x10 is missing. I got a good lead tone for one patch I made, for a 6-string guitar, using the 8x10.

 

As far as the Ampeg, after getting the bass pack, I never even touched that amp after that. It's a horrible bass amp, at least what's modeled in the HD. By the way, I have Helix now, so the HD sits there doing nothing most of the time, but I still use the 4x10, two of them, and the SVT Brt for my bass patches in Helix.

[Onomatopoeia]

I always preferred the SVT Brt with 4x10 Rhino and 47 cond mic. Haven't tried it with the GK. I like the 4x10 over the 8x10 Beast because the Beast sounds like it has a big hole somewhere spanning a large frequency chunk. Plenty of low end with that cab though. The 4x10 is a good compromise. It lacks some low end, which can be compensated for by jacking up the bass control on the bass guitar, but provides that fat chunkiness the 8x10 is missing. I got a good lead tone for one patch I made, for a 6-string guitar, using the 8x10.

I might do some testing on that. I would love me some more midrange growl for my bass patches!

 

One more question, where do you do the bass cut, if any at all?

[Onomatopoeia]

A little update: As I mentioned earlier, the pitch glide for some reason appears to sound the most transparent when turned on with 100% mix and pitch at 0.0 (heel position). Unfortunatley this made all the low end go away when using the effect (hence one of the reason with the dual amps). After a whole lot of trial and error, I have it now set it up like this:

 

Pitch glide first in signal before split. At FX pedal heel postion: pitch 0.0 and mix 100%. FX pedal toe position: pitch 12.00 and mix 75 %.

 

This settup is not perfect, but gives me the most transparent sound when engaging the effect, while keeping at least some of the low end of my bass while using it. If someone has a better solution, please share, and if not, thank you all for your help :)