Helix and Spider Valve rocks!!!

[roscoe5]

Edit: Appologies in advance for the long post :)

 

Thought I would post this since I haven't seen anything on Helix and the Spider Valve.

 

After running Helix through all of my guitar, bass, and PA gear, as well as various 3rd party and my own IR's, I was reluctantly starting to look to expensive FRFR solutions.

 

This weekend, I stumbled across and picked up a "broken" Spider Valve MKII HD100 from a pawn shop for $80. The display was messed up and the amp was crackling, popping, volume cut out, and the master volume knob was a mess when you turned it. But i plugged straight into the power amp input in the back and that worked fine, so with Helix in mind I said "what the heck, I've blown more cash on far less" and went for it. I got it home, pulled it apart, blew out the dead bugs and droppings and a little Deoxit in the master volume pot and it was good to go, except for the display. The SV PC editor works fine with it if I ever wanted to use the built in modelling and effects (doubtful).

 

To cut to the chase, all of the Helix amp-only models into Spider Valve power amp input into my Mesa Recto 2x12 cab sound AMAZING!!! I have never heard that Mesa Recto Celestion V30 cab produce such a diverse range of tones with such clarity. It's really nice to just run a single 1/4" cable back to the SV. I cannot imagine anything sounding better for electric guitar, and I have been experimenting obsessively with Helix, physical rigs and IR's, and researching clips and videos A LOT!!!. I might go so far as to say I have never had a better guitar tone, but I need to get through a few gigs to make that claim ;)

 

To keep life simple and tones beautiful and consistent between stage and FOH, I will probably just IR the SV power amp and Recto 2x12 with one or two mics for a Helix FOH PA signal path, and say screw a bunch of other cab/mic models and IR's...at least for live use. I may even post them for this week's th-IRs-ty Thursday free IR's :)

 

The Helix Amp+Cab models into the SV into my Mesa 1x12 & 2x12 bass cabs sound really good too but a little boomy. So SV HD100 might make a good pairing with a passive FRFR cab. But then again, I'm not compelled to chase Helix tone options any further at this point.

 

The 100W 6L6 power amp of the SV is so clear, dead quiet and tons of headroom (dare I say almost FRFR)...go Bogner! It sounds SO much better than Helix through ANY of my other power amps (Mesa 2:90, Mesa 20/20, Marshall 100/100 EL34) or effects returns of any of my Mesa heads (Mesa Triple Rec, Mesa Stiletto, Mesa Mark V). Crazy, I know...busted-a$$ $80 "POS" pawn shop amp sounding better than my Mesa gear that I have sold my soul for several times. I feel really dirty and wrong liking it so much.

 

I have always previously drank the L6 Kool-Aid and have owned the Pod XT Live, X3, and last gen dream rig JTV/HD500x/DT50/L2M and had never gotten tones I fell in love with from any of them. Actually at the end even ran some of my tube pre's (Triaxis/JMP-1) into the DT50 effects return and didn't care for the power amp. Anyway, I ended up selling it all off for a good price (luckily before Helix was announced) and went back to my physical rigs.

 

After researching the Spider Valve and reading the manual, it seems that it was designed to be used with any Line 6 modeler (Pod X3 & future) into the power amp in as well as the built in Spider models. All of the Line 6 SV cabs used V30 speakers and i love my Recto 2x12 w/ V30's. I much prefer 6L6 tubes to El34's in my Mesa amps. So it makes sense why this 6L6 SV/Recto 2x12 is sounding so good to me.

 

Honestly, I had always thought SV sounded like crap as my other guitarist had one 5 years ago. It did not cut through the mix and my Mesa Tremoverb 2x12 combo blew it away. He was always frustrated with it. He ended up getting a Marshall half stack to one-up me ;) Even now. playing through the front end of it with the old built-in Spider Models still sounds like poo to me, especially when compared to Helix into the power amp in.

 

The SV HD100 is quite a bit smaller and maybe lighter than the DT50 was. It's also a little smaller than my Mesa Recto heads. Styling is pretty similar to my Recto 2x12 and it looks good sitting on top. The pilot light and backlit plexiglass logo look dang cool too, and almost match the Helix lighting! I'm liking it so much that I think I am going to order the metal Line 6 SV cab logo and replace my Mesa logo on the Recto 2x12!

 

In summary, I would highly recommend that anyone without a lot of cash, not fully in love with Helix + whatever, looking for a good Helix pairing consider the SV series. Especially if you are not feeling the FRFR path with Alto powered PA speakers or more expensive options. SV's are about 1/2 the price of the DT series, and might even sound better with Helix to you if you generally prefer 6L6's and V30 speakers. I would bet the super clean SV 6L6 power amp is somewhere between solid state FRFR and the DT series amps, or other tube guitar amps. Heck, you might even come across a "broken" SV for a steal too.

 

No telling what Line 6 and Bogner are cooking up as an amp solution for Helix, but for now with the SV I am FINALLY happy with my rig and excited and inspired to 100% play again instead of 90% tweaking/experimenting and 10% playing.

[ricksteruk]

It's fantastic when your rig just inspires you to want to play!  Congrats on a good find :)

 

I'm absolutely loving the combination of my Helix with my Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 50 TSC combo.  I also feel inspired to play.. I swear I have played more in the last 3 weeks since I got Helix than all the rest of this year.

[roscoe5]

Seriously, I spent all night jamming through all of the Helix amp models and the SV/Recto 2x12 setup, with periodic ear rest breaks, and I couldn't get a bad sound out of it.  I'm amazed how I can now really notice the differences and nuances between Helix amps of similar types, especially with a static 6L6 power amp and V30 speakers. My Mesa amps must have really been coloring the sound to where all of the amps within a type (clean, low gain, mid gain, high gain) sounded similar to me.

 

I'll definitely be IR'ing the SV/Recto 2x12 and posting this week.

 

Biased my own amp for the first time with the SV. It was quite a bit off across all 4 tubes. Pretty cool that they made that accessible.

[maxnew40]

I used to run my HD500 into the power amp of a spydervalve it always sounded pretty good. These days I use Line6 L2 speakers.

 

-Max

[roscoe5]

I plugged my Helix / SV HD100 into my Mesa 1x12 and 2x12 bass cabs as sort of a tube FRFR experiment.  This sounded much better than using the SS power amps (effects returns) of my Mesa M9 or Walkabout.  It was much fuller and livelier with 3sigma and my own IR's, as well as Helix cabs, than my bass SS amps were into the bass cabs.  The feel was much better IMO too. Also sounds 100x better than Helix into my JBL Eon 515xt's.

 

I still love my SV HD100 into Mesa Recto 2x12.  It really meets all of my electric guitar needs.  But it is like plugging different heads into the same Recto 2x12 sound all the time with no acoustic sim capability.  I do not like to use IR's or cab models with this setup.

 

I really dont think I would like the current market SS FRFR rigs from what I am hearing and reading.  I really feel like the SV HD100 is about as close to tube FRFR as one could get.  I'm considering pairing it with something like Mission FR212.

 

http://usa.matrixamplification.com/fr212-passive.html 

 

Has anyone else tried to use a clean tube amp (Line 6 or other) in an FRFR setup?

[DunedinDragon]

It's fantastic when your rig just inspires you to want to play!  Congrats on a good find :)

 

 

That's a double-edged sword my friend.  There are about a thousand things I SHOULD be getting done, but because my home practice rig is strategically setup so that I have to pass by it no matter where I'm going in the house or when I come in, I always seem to put off the job I'm supposed to be doing while I jam for a bit on my Helix.  Of course "a bit" can be anywhere from 30 minutes to a few hours.

[DunedinDragon]

 

Has anyone else tried to use a clean tube amp (Line 6 or other) in an FRFR setup?

 

My experience with such a thing wasn't so good.  Because we're always going through our PA (QSC KLA12 Line Array) in our shows, what sounded good to me through the tube amp sounded entirely different to the audience once it came through the DI to the board in the FOH.  I could never get them to match up correctly unless I mic'd the cabinet and then the mic added it's own coloration to the sound (as well as cross feed noise from other instruments).  So I just gave in and went with a standard FRFR setup and haven't had any of those types of problems again.  Perfect match every time.

[roscoe5]

Good points. At least with my current setup, the cab gets mic'd and all is normal with the sound guys. Everyone is happy.

 

When we use our own sound, I use IR'S I made of the SV and Recto 212. Always the same IR to Helix XLR to PA for consistency.

 

Tube amp + FRFR cab with cab models could really create inconsistency with the PA and Helix rig.

[spangberg]

On 5/9/2016 at 3:42 PM, roscoe5 said:

 

The Helix Amp+Cab models into the SV into my Mesa 1x12 & 2x12 bass cabs sound really good too but a little boomy.

Hi roscoe5. I too have been on a Helix tone quest for years trying to get the right FRFR solution, but then I remembered about the Spider Valve 112 mk1 I had in storage.  I have some tweaking to do, but it has way more balls than my L6 L2 / Headrush cabs paired with my helix floor.  My Q to you is: do you use pre amp blocks or regular blocks?  and do you have cab blocks / IR blocks?  One thread told me to not have a cab block at all, since I am plugging into the POWER AMP IN on the back of the SV.  But it sounds really fizzy when I do that.  I had good success for the 30 minutes I had last night to switch out my usual 412 cab block with a 112 OwnHammer IR.  Any signal chain advice would be much appreciated.  Looking forward to finally hearing how the helix floor is supposed to sound!  -Tim

[kurtkeating]

i literally just bought the Helix to run it to the power amp of my HD100 bogner amp!  I have a 4x12 line 6 cab...so can't wait to here it.  for live shows, I'm gonna run it stereo DI and mic the cabinet...gonna be sweet.