Helix and DT amp integration

[talonmm]

I have searched google and the dt amp forum section and this section but can not find the midi commands to have the helix work with the dt series amps.

 

I know there is a an excellent video that was posted here and available on youtube, but could someone kindly recap the midi commands to use to have the dt amps and the helix work well together?

 

Can someone also verify that this is the best sounding and easiest way to integrate the two products?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[radatats]

using midi with Helix works the same as using DT Edit.  The DT will remain in the last configuration you set.  Knowing that, I found the best way is to choose a voicing in the DT to always use with your DT and turn off the internal DT amp and cab modeling.  Then you can use specific midi commands in your patch to configure the DT the way you want it.  However, for me since I don't use the DT for anything else, I turned off all the modeling and cabs in all 8 voicings in the DT and configured channel A to Class A, topo I-IV and Channel B to Class AB, topo I-IV.  Now I only need a midi command in the patch to select the right DT voicing and its already configured.

 

Midi CC 122, 0-3,     selects Ch A, voicing I-IV

Midi CC 122, 4-7,     selects Ch B, voicing I-IV

Midi CC 12, 0           selects no amp/cab

Midi CC 36, 0 or 65  DT reverb On or OFF

Midi CC 73, 0 or 65  Class A or Class AB

Midi CC 77, 0-3        Topology I-IV

Midi CC 75, 0 or 65  Triode or Pentode

 

Remember that the switch on the amp says Topology but really just changes the voicing or preset.  The midi command actually changes the topology (negative feedback loop configuration) of the power section.

 

You can use either full amps or preamps in Helix with the DT.  Personally, I find the full amp models MUCH better than the preamp models.  There is a huge swing in preamp model volumes and the full amp models just seem to capture more of the flavor of the originals.  You can use Helix cabs or IRs even with a real guitar cab.  Just adds a tone variation that you may or may not want.  Totally up to you.

[roscoe5]

All the gory MIDI details...

 

http://line6.com/support/manuals/dt25hd

 

DT Amplifier MIDI Implementation Guide

[talonmm]

using midi with Helix works the same as using DT Edit.  The DT will remain in the last configuration you set.  Knowing that, I found the best way is to choose a voicing in the DT to always use with your DT and turn off the internal DT amp and cab modeling.  Then you can use specific midi commands in your patch to configure the DT the way you want it.  However, for me since I don't use the DT for anything else, I turned off all the modeling and cabs in all 8 voicings in the DT and configured channel A to Class A, topo I-IV and Channel B to Class AB, topo I-IV.  Now I only need a midi command in the patch to select the right DT voicing and its already configured.

 

Midi CC 122, 0-3,     selects Ch A, voicing I-IV

Midi CC 122, 4-7,     selects Ch B, voicing I-IV

Midi CC 12, 0           selects no amp/cab

Midi CC 36, 0 or 65  DT reverb On or OFF

Midi CC 73, 0 or 65  Class A or Class AB

Midi CC 77, 0-3        Topology I-IV

Midi CC 75, 0 or 65  Triode or Pentode

 

Remember that the switch on the amp says Topology but really just changes the voicing or preset.  The midi command actually changes the topology (negative feedback loop configuration) of the power section.

 

You can use either full amps or preamps in Helix with the DT.  Personally, I find the full amp models MUCH better than the preamp models.  There is a huge swing in preamp model volumes and the full amp models just seem to capture more of the flavor of the originals.  You can use Helix cabs or IRs even with a real guitar cab.  Just adds a tone variation that you may or may not want.  Totally up to you.

 

 

Thanks!  I believe this is exactly what i was looking for.  If you have a helix tone that you want to use, how do you know which voice option is best on the dt?

[roscoe5]

Thanks! I believe this is exactly what i was looking for. If you have a helix tone that you want to use, how do you know which voice option is best on the dt?

I meant to post these earlier, but here are the presets I made that pair the Helix preamps and amps with the corresponding DT default amp topology for the 30 HD amps that come with DT.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/49muh8joz4m35ui/AACP3cAXYnijw0uVQGrwUmjqa?dl=0

 

Use these with 1/4" out of Helix into Effects Return (Power Amp in) of DT. I basically send MIDI CC19=0 to switch to Ch A and MIDI CC 12=1 thru 30 to select the default DT amp topo settings for each amp type. Going 1/4" into DT bypasses the internal HD amp modelling and eliminates the need to turn off DT amp models, cabs and mics via MIDI.

 

Note that Preamps folder contains Helix preamps and the Amps folder contains Helix full amp models. You will want to run the Helix main volume at about 50% up for the preamp presets and 25% up for the amp presets.

 

Of course there are more Helix amps than the 30 DT HD amps, but I thought this was a good first pass to get the low hanging fruit.

 

These are very simple with just the Helix preamp or amps and some level adjustments to try to even them out patch to patch. You can add your own drives, effects, signal splits to XLR/cab-IR models to PA/monitors/recording, etc.

 

When using Helix full amp models, many find changing DT topology really isn't necessary. You can park DT on Class A/B, Pentode, and Topo of your choice. I personally like Topo II for this.  Just unplug the MIDI cable with these presets and set DT manually.

[radatats]

Thanks!  I believe this is exactly what i was looking for.  If you have a helix tone that you want to use, how do you know which voice option is best on the dt?

 

here is a PDF that lists all the amps and matches up the settings from the HD500 so its about as close as you can get to the right configuration for Helix - DT patches.

 

Helix - HD500X Settings for DT Series Amplifiers.pdf

[roscoe5]

here is a PDF that lists all the amps and matches up the settings from the HD500 so its about as close as you can get to the right configuration for Helix - DT patches.

 

Helix - HD500X Settings for DT Series Amplifiers.pdf

That's awesome! Thanks!

[talonmm]

here is a PDF that lists all the amps and matches up the settings from the HD500 so its about as close as you can get to the right configuration for Helix - DT patches.

 

Helix - HD500X Settings for DT Series Amplifiers.pdf

 

This is exactly what I was hoping for!  Thanks so much!

[talonmm]

using midi with Helix works the same as using DT Edit.  The DT will remain in the last configuration you set.  Knowing that, I found the best way is to choose a voicing in the DT to always use with your DT and turn off the internal DT amp and cab modeling.  Then you can use specific midi commands in your patch to configure the DT the way you want it.  However, for me since I don't use the DT for anything else, I turned off all the modeling and cabs in all 8 voicings in the DT and configured channel A to Class A, topo I-IV and Channel B to Class AB, topo I-IV.  Now I only need a midi command in the patch to select the right DT voicing and its already configured.

 

Midi CC 122, 0-3,     selects Ch A, voicing I-IV

Midi CC 122, 4-7,     selects Ch B, voicing I-IV

Midi CC 12, 0           selects no amp/cab

Midi CC 36, 0 or 65  DT reverb On or OFF

Midi CC 73, 0 or 65  Class A or Class AB

Midi CC 77, 0-3        Topology I-IV

Midi CC 75, 0 or 65  Triode or Pentode

 

Remember that the switch on the amp says Topology but really just changes the voicing or preset.  The midi command actually changes the topology (negative feedback loop configuration) of the power section.

 

You can use either full amps or preamps in Helix with the DT.  Personally, I find the full amp models MUCH better than the preamp models.  There is a huge swing in preamp model volumes and the full amp models just seem to capture more of the flavor of the originals.  You can use Helix cabs or IRs even with a real guitar cab.  Just adds a tone variation that you may or may not want.  Totally up to you.

 

I think I finally understand this matter now.  It seems the midi commands you provided may be repetitive but I will follow exactly as you suggested.  I mean repetitive because if I understand correctly, you are selecting the class and topology twice in the script.  I guess I should leave it along and follow your script 100%?

 

Last, the excellent pdf provided does not mention Triode or Pentode options.  Any thoughts on how to choose the best match for this option within each amp and tone selection?

 

Thanks!

[radatats]

I think I finally understand this matter now.  It seems the midi commands you provided may be repetitive but I will follow exactly as you suggested.  I mean repetitive because if I understand correctly, you are selecting the class and topology twice in the script.  I guess I should leave it along and follow your script 100%?

 

Last, the excellent pdf provided does not mention Triode or Pentode options.  Any thoughts on how to choose the best match for this option within each amp and tone selection?

 

Thanks!

 

I think you misunderstand.  Here is my solution for Helix DT with L6 link and a midi cable.

 

Step 1

- choose a Channel and voicing in the DT (or all of them) to use specifically with the Helix.

- Use the first 4 midi commands as necessary ONE TIME to select your choice, turn off the amp and cab and optionally turn off the DT reverb. 

- It will stay this way unless you change it again with midi or do a factory reset.

- now you have a dedicated slot in the DT for using with Helix.

 

Step 2

- in your Helix patch use instant commands to select the same Channel/voicing, Class A or AB, Topology I-IV, and optionally Pentode/Triode.

- now when you select that patch it will change the DT to the right slot and configure the power section for you.

 

My Preferred Method

- I used Step 1 to configure all 8 slots in the DT for use with Helix.  I don't use my DT for anything else. 

- I changed Channel A, I-IV to be Class A, topology I-IV and Channel B, I-IV to be Class AB, topology I-IV. 

- I set them all to Pentode.

(As far as Pentode/Triode, I use Pentode for all models and only use the physical switch to select Triode if I want to play at lower volumes at home.  I can't remember for sure but I don't think any of them were Triode in the HD500.)

- This was a ONE TIME deal.  You don't need to do it again.

- now in my Helix patch I ONLY use a midi command to pull up the right slot for the amp model since it is already configured.

[roscoe5]

I think you misunderstand.  Here is my solution for Helix DT with L6 link and a midi cable.

 

Step 1

- choose a Channel and voicing in the DT (or all of them) to use specifically with the Helix.

- Use the first 4 midi commands as necessary ONE TIME to select your choice, turn off the amp and cab and optionally turn off the DT reverb. 

- It will stay this way unless you change it again with midi or do a factory reset.

- now you have a dedicated slot in the DT for using with Helix.

 

Step 2

- in your Helix patch use instant commands to select the same Channel/voicing, Class A or AB, Topology I-IV, and optionally Pentode/Triode.

- now when you select that patch it will change the DT to the right slot and configure the power section for you.

 

My Preferred Method

- I used Step 1 to configure all 8 slots in the DT for use with Helix.  I don't use my DT for anything else. 

- I changed Channel A, I-IV to be Class A, topology I-IV and Channel B, I-IV to be Class AB, topology I-IV. 

- I set them all to Pentode.

(As far as Pentode/Triode, I use Pentode for all models and only use the physical switch to select Triode if I want to play at lower volumes at home.  I can't remember for sure but I don't think any of them were Triode in the HD500.)

- This was a ONE TIME deal.  You don't need to do it again.

- now in my Helix patch I ONLY use a midi command to pull up the right slot for the amp model since it is already configured.

 

 

Hey Radatats,

 

Unless I am missing an major benefit of using L6 Link to DT over 1/4" power amp into DT (it's my understanding that L6 Link only passes audio with Helix currently), I found that you can skip all of the "turning off" MIDI CC steps if you go 1/4" out of Helix into the 1/4" power amp in of DT.  It looks like you are using 8 MIDI CC commands when I think I am doing it in 2. And with the method I am using, you actually don't need to do anything in DT Edit.

 

Never had anyone check me though.  Maybe I am missing something, but it seems to work fine.

 

1. 1/4" Helix out to 1/4" DT Effects Return/Power Amp In (brings signal straight into DT power amp after all DT amp modelling, reverb, cabs, mics, etc.)

2. Helix Instant Access>MIDI CC# 19 = 0 = DT Ch A

3a. Helix Instant Access>MIDI CC# 12 = 1 to 30 = DT HD Amp default settings (you need to know what DT HD amp has the corresponding settings to the Helix amp or preamp)

3b. Alternatively, manually set Topo, Class, Pentode/Triode via Helix IA and MIDI CC.  But I have DT 50 which has 3 more "hidden" MIDI parameters: Phase Inverter B+ voltage, 12AX7 Boost, & Feedback Capacitor type.  I wanted to kill 6 birds with one stone.

[radatats]

Hey Radatats,

 

Unless I am missing an major benefit of using L6 Link to DT over 1/4" power amp into DT (it's my understanding that L6 Link only passes audio with Helix currently), I found that you can skip all of the "turning off" MIDI CC steps if you go 1/4" out of Helix into the 1/4" power amp in of DT.  It looks like you are using 8 MIDI CC commands when I think I am doing it in 2. And with the method I am using, you actually don't need to do anything in DT Edit.

 

Never had anyone check me though.  Maybe I am missing something, but it seems to work fine.

 

1. 1/4" Helix out to 1/4" DT Effects Return/Power Amp In (brings signal straight into DT power amp after all DT amp modelling, reverb, cabs, mics, etc.)

2. Helix Instant Access>MIDI CC# 19 = 0 = DT Ch A

3a. Helix Instant Access>MIDI CC# 12 = 1 to 30 = DT HD Amp default settings (you need to know what DT HD amp has the corresponding settings to the Helix amp or preamp)

3b. Alternatively, manually set Topo, Class, Pentode/Triode via Helix IA and MIDI CC.  But I have DT 50 which has 3 more "hidden" MIDI parameters: Phase Inverter B+ voltage, 12AX7 Boost, & Feedback Capacitor type.  I wanted to kill 6 birds with one stone.

 

I haven't compared the two methods.  I was originally just trying to make it work with L6 Link.  Yours certainly looks workable, I don't know if there is any real difference to the tone.  The only thing I can think of is your way eliminates the DT Master volume right?  The DT is full blast?  With mine the DT Master is usable.  And you don't have the option of using the DT reverbs (no biggie).

 

However, remember that no matter what, the Helix will stay in the last configuration you set it by midi.  So even if you are sending the audio to the FX Loop  the midi is configuring the power section for that Channel voicing and it stays like that when you are done.  Your DT does not somehow return to its original condition unless you do a factory reset.  That's why I configured mine like I did so the only thing my helix is doing now is selecting the right Channel voice, nothing is being changed by the patch so my DT stays that way when I am done.

[talonmm]

I think I finally understand this matter now.  It seems the midi commands you provided may be repetitive but I will follow exactly as you suggested.  I mean repetitive because if I understand correctly, you are selecting the class and topology twice in the script.  I guess I should leave it along and follow your script 100%?

 

Last, the excellent pdf provided does not mention Triode or Pentode options.  Any thoughts on how to choose the best match for this option within each amp and tone selection?

 

Thanks!

 

I understand the first 4 commands will help to set up the dt amp to work with the Helix.

 

I also see that there is a dt reset procedure that you can manually perform on the amp to return it to it's native state.

 

Can you help me with the (4) commands that can be set up in a helix tone that when used will return the amp back to it's original set up so I don't have to reset the amp manually?

 

thanks!

[talonmm]

I tried this weekend to program the helix to a dt 25 and it was a complete failure.  It sounded great for a little while but then got awful.  Poking around the internet, I believe the DT amps can hold up to 8 model amps at the same time so I wonder if the various tones I sent to the dt blended together to make a sonic mess.

 

So forgive my ignorance and poor ability to understand this whole process, but can we please start from the beginning?

 

From what I understand, I need to send four midi commands to the dt amp to change some settings such as shutting off the reverb, amps and cabs.

 

so I create a tone that is run once with the commands  122, 0   (I am not sure if any of the 4 possible values are vital here so I went with a zero value.

then 122, 4  (you mentioned 4-7, so again not sure if putting a 4 is correct or not correct.

 

then 12,0  

 

and finally 36,0

 

Now poking around other forums, I see someone also did:

122,0

11,0

71,0

82,0

37,0

 

will adding some of these commands help?

 

now, let's say I want to use the US Double Nrm  (AB  topology = I

 

so I sent this command when using a tone that wants to use that amp.

 

73,65

77,0

75,65

 

that's all I believe I needed.

 

now I am wondering if i need to add commands before these three commands to wipe out any other amp models that could still be in the dt amp.

 

any thoughts as to why my tones sound unusable as I switch tones (after painstakingly putting in the class and topology for each tone?

 

thanks

[talonmm]

Radatats,

 

Can you please look at my last post above this one, I feel so close yet something is wrong.  Perhaps I am getting multiple voices and amps and I change tones?  Do I need to flush out the last tone from the amp before loading new ones?  Can you please see my last post and let me know if I am doing something wrong?  Thanks!

[roscoe5]

Radatats,

 

Can you please look at my last post above this one, I feel so close yet something is wrong.  Perhaps I am getting multiple voices and amps and I change tones?  Do I need to flush out the last tone from the amp before loading new ones?  Can you please see my last post and let me know if I am doing something wrong?  Thanks!

Try just going 1/4" out of Helix the the effects return/power amp in of DT not L6 Link at least as a test to see if the sound is better. This physically bypasses all DT modeling.

[talonmm]

Try just going 1/4" out of Helix the the effects return/power amp in of DT not L6 Link at least as a test to see if the sound is better. This physically bypasses all DT modeling.

I may try that, it's a good, idea, it's just I am so close to getting helix and the dt amp  to integrate as well has the pod hd500x works with the dt technology.  I would like to see if I can get the midi commands to work.

 

thanks