Helix with DT50 vs. L2t

[beascott]

I am wondering if anybody has A/B'd the Helix through a DT50 vs. an L2t.  Even if you haven't, I am interested in opinions about the advantages/disadvantages of these setups for both live and studio applications.

[roscoe5]

I own a DT50 and have played my Helix through an L2m.

DT50

• Pro: Real tube power section through real guitar speaker. Helix doesn't sound or feel any different than playing through your favorite tube amp. No real transition from traditional tube amps to Helix + DT.
• Pro: Easy to get good sounds.
• Con: Line 6 hasn't released fully automated DT integration yet. Takes a bit of research and manual MIDI configuration and cabling to map the tube amp settings (topo, class, etc.) to the Helix preamps.
• Con: DT50's EL34 power section is pretty dominant with Helix preamp-only models. A lot of the Helix magic is in the full amp models. Some people use these with DT, and it works pretty well with DT low power mode. If your cup of tea is EL34/84 type amps like Marshall, Vox, and other boutiques, you'll love it. I think the 6L6 high gain preamp models like Mesa, Engl, PV and Bogner Uber are a bit off through DT50.
• Con: Acoustic and synth sounds are dull through a regular guitar cab. Cannot use for bass.
• Con: One cab sound and that's the sound of the physical cab you connect it to. You can get some nice variations with the eq block though.
• Con: You really need to be running through the rig at stage volume to setup patches. This can be challenging depending on your living/jamming space.
• Con: Pretty heavy/bulky amp.
• Neutral: you will need to mic the cab or split the Helix path at the end and put in a cab or IR block to the XLR out to PA.

L2

• Pro: Will work for electric or acoustic guitar or bass, as well as vocals, keys etc.
• Pro: Can use full Helix amp models and they will sound great as designed.
• Pro: Can use Helix cab models and an almost unlimited number of 3rd party IR's
• Pro: You can setup patches with studio monitors or headphones and generally get similar sounds from L2.
• Pro: 1 L2 speaker is super portable and easy to setup with L6 Link.
• Pro/con: You are hearing a mic'd guitar cab (model), which is exactly what the audience hears. But you may not be used to hearing this and it will take some getting used to.
• Con: Bit of a learning curve to get good sounds with Helix cab models and IR's. This frustrates many people.
• Con: L2 can come off harsh pointed right at you. You really need to understand Helix high/low cuts and eq settings.
• Neutral: This may be debatable, but an L2 in floor monitor position may not have the same stage coverage and volume of a traditional guitar amp. This can be good or bad depending on your playing and band situation (i.e. church vs a bar).

So I might say that for a loud rock band with acoustic drums and bassist/second guitarist that play big traditional gear, you want to just plug in and rock and not go through tech-anxiety, you might consider DT. If you are jamming at home with recorded tracks, other bandmates have small rigs or modelers, drummer has an electronic kit, you want electric, acoustic and synth sounds out of the same rig, you are considering Variax or a dual-voice mag/piezo equipped guitar, you are playing in a volume-controlled environment, you are a sound engineer, etc. L2 would probably be the way to go.

[spikey]

Im not too sure about your last point roscoe. I bet there are "lots" of bands out there right now where the guitarist is using an FRFR setup (like the L2/3/m/t)  with loud drummers and bass players. My take on this is that it all depends on how you 1st approach this and how its all dealt with. Ive also seen some that are pointing the FRFR wedges at them from the "front" of the stage, where its working well. So its what you are willing to use, while breaking tradition and getting pass what our Dad did. BTW- Im one of those Dads that is learning a new way.  :D

[roscoe5]

Eh, it's just my personal experience with my rock band made up of old friends from back in the day.  My other guitarist just picked up a real Bogner Uberschall halfstack, the bassist has an Ampeg 410+115 rig and the drummer is loud as heck.  We play a buch of self-indulgent 90's grunge and 2000's emo rock for fun and pick up the occasional bar gig.  I use Helix, my Mesa 212 and Line 6 Spider Valve HD100 or DT50 depending on my mood.  

 

My other band I play bass in actually plays good gigs and makes great money. They are sort of an acoustic-fronted jazz/jam band with fellow players from the jazz program at the university I attended.  I can play Helix into the effects return of my Mesa Walkabout + 112 bass cab.  I've gone direct a few times through just monitors too.  Works great for electric and double bass.  I could easily go with an L2 in this band, even if I played guitar.

 

P.S. I think Helix + Spider Valve + Mesa 212 sounds better than my friend's real Bogner and pedals.  He's always tweaking and jacking with that thing, my rig is on set it and forget it mode :)  Takes him twice the amount of time to setup too.  Good thing he doesn't hang out on this forum ;)

[JLondon]

Gear Head's pro/con comments pretty much cover  it in my opinion.  For live play I only use my L2 as a personal floor monitor pointed at me from the front with signal from Helix directly to FOH.  As much as I love the L2/3s, I would probably never use them like an amp.  As for the DT amps, I personally would keep my distance at this point.  I'm not 'in the know' and this certainly is not official but I would almost bet you money Line 6 is currently working on a DT type amp that is designed from the ground up to be compatible with the Helix.  I'm expecting it any day now.  I'm not sure but I think the DT 50 is already out of production.  Seems the DT25 is the only one most stores still have in stock.   I'm hoping that when the 25's are all gone the Helix/DT amps will come out. 

[roscoe5]

JLondon has good points. The DT amps are HD/last gen and Line 6 hasn't released seamless integration with them. You can get some smoking deals on them if you look and they are fun to mess with and will do the job.

 

Frankly, L2/3 Stagesource speakers are about as old as DT. But in most press and videos I see when Line 6 is demoing Helix, I see L2 speakers with it.

 

Some new HX compatible tech is probably around the corner.

[beascott]

I own a DT50 and have played my Helix through an L2m.

 

DT50

• Pro: Real tube power section through real guitar speaker. Helix doesn't sound or feel any different than playing through your favorite tube amp. No real transition from traditional tube amps to Helix + DT.
• Pro: Easy to get good sounds.
• Con: Line 6 hasn't released fully automated DT integration yet. Takes a bit of research and manual MIDI configuration and cabling to map the tube amp settings (topo, class, etc.) to the Helix preamps.
• Con: DT50's EL34 power section is pretty dominant with Helix preamp-only models. A lot of the Helix magic is in the full amp models. Some people use these with DT, and it works pretty well with DT low power mode. If your cup of tea is EL34/84 type amps like Marshall, Vox, and other boutiques, you'll love it. I think the 6L6 high gain preamp models like Mesa, Engl, PV and Bogner Uber are a bit off through DT50.
• Con: Acoustic and synth sounds are dull through a regular guitar cab. Cannot use for bass.
• Con: One cab sound and that's the sound of the physical cab you connect it to. You can get some nice variations with the eq block though.
• Con: You really need to be running through the rig at stage volume to setup patches. This can be challenging depending on your living/jamming space.
• Con: Pretty heavy/bulky amp.
• Neutral: you will need to mic the cab or split the Helix path at the end and put in a cab or IR block to the XLR out to PA.

L2

• Pro: Will work for electric or acoustic guitar or bass, as well as vocals, keys etc.
• Pro: Can use full Helix amp models and they will sound great as designed.
• Pro: Can use Helix cab models and an almost unlimited number of 3rd party IR's
• Pro: You can setup patches with studio monitors or headphones and generally get similar sounds from L2.
• Pro: 1 L2 speaker is super portable and easy to setup with L6 Link.
• Pro/con: You are hearing a mic'd guitar cab (model), which is exactly what the audience hears. But you may not be used to hearing this and it will take some getting used to.
• Con: Bit of a learning curve to get good sounds with Helix cab models and IR's. This frustrates many people.
• Con: L2 can come off harsh pointed right at you. You really need to understand Helix high/low cuts and eq settings.
• Neutral: This may be debatable, but an L2 in floor monitor position may not have the same stage coverage and volume of a traditional guitar amp. This can be good or bad depending on your playing and band situation (i.e. church vs a bar).

So I might say that for a loud rock band with acoustic drums and bassist/second guitarist that play big traditional gear, you want to just plug in and rock and not go through tech-anxiety, you might consider DT. If you are jamming at home with recorded tracks, other bandmates have small rigs or modelers, drummer has an electronic kit, you want electric, acoustic and synth sounds out of the same rig, you are considering Variax or a dual-voice mag/piezo equipped guitar, you are playing in a volume-controlled environment, you are a sound engineer, etc. L2 would probably be the way to go.

Thanks for such a thoughtful and thorough effort to answer my question.  This helps me a lot.