Helix doing strange things with my Pigtronix boost

[talonmm]

I had a hard time getting the helix to make volume boosts the way I wanted in each of the tones I use so I built a small pedal-board with a wah pedal that automatically shuts off when not in use, and a gain pedal.

 

using the send/return jacks on the helix, I hooked up my small peddle board.

 

when I do the send/return towards the start of my path, the wah sounds great, but the gain basically has no change when I click it on.

 

when I do the send/return toward the end of the path, the wah sounds too harsh, and the gain function works great.

 

It seems that when I shut off every single effect in the path, and place the gain before the amp, when the signal goes through the amp and cabinet, the gain no longer functions (I believe the amp and cab are the only device left on in the chain).

 

no matter which amps or cabs I use, I seem to have this problem.  The gain pedal works great after the amp and cab, but the wah sounds too harsh.

 

is there a setting inside the amp/cab section that limits the volume?  

 

any suggestions?

 

thanks

 

 

 

[rd2rk]

If you want to OVERDRIVE something, put the gain pedal before it. If you want to BOOST THE OUTPUT LEVEL of the whole rig, put it last.

 

Some folks like their wah after their overdrives. I've never heard of anyone putting it after the amp. For me, it sounds best first in the signal chain. 

 

So, you have a dilemma. The wah sounds best early in the chain, and, as a level boost, you need to put the Pig last. I would put the wah between the guitar and the Helix, and the Pig between the Helix and the amp. 

[shanecgriffo]

2 extra patch leads should fix the problem ?

[talonmm]

If you want to OVERDRIVE something, put the gain pedal before it. If you want to BOOST THE OUTPUT LEVEL of the whole rig, put it last.

 

Some folks like their wah after their overdrives. I've never heard of anyone putting it after the amp. For me, it sounds best first in the signal chain. 

 

So, you have a dilemma. The wah sounds best early in the chain, and, as a level boost, you need to put the Pig last. I would put the wah between the guitar and the Helix, and the Pig between the Helix and the amp. 

 

What you are saying makes sense, but any idea why putting the boost earlier in the chain makes the boost ineffective?  There are no compression effects in the chain, yet something is limiting  the jump in volume?

[talonmm]

2 extra patch leads should fix the problem ?

 

I think you are 100% correct, I just hate having wires everywhere, and am hoping someone can provide an answer as to why the gain is not working earlier in the chain (with no compression effects being used).  thanks!

[zooey]

What you are saying makes sense, but any idea why putting the boost earlier in the chain makes the boost ineffective?  There are no compression effects in the chain, yet something is limiting  the jump in volume?

Is there an overdriven amp or preamp after it? Since the signal is already clipped in that case, mostly you'll get more overdrive, maybe not even noticeable, not more volume.

 

Big picture, think about it like real-life physical gear. Pretty sure you've never put your wah after your amp, so don't do it in Helix either, unless you're after some sort of unusual effect. Plus of modelling is that you *can* do that, where a real wah fed with a speaker level signal instead of guitar level would quite likely die in .001 ms.

 

Whether you're trying for more volume or more amp drive, you should be able to do it in Helix pretty easily, unless there's some special mojo to the Pigtronix. If you're trying to overdrive an amp or a distortion block more, add a block with additional gain before whatever block you're trying to push. If you're just looking for more volume, put it late in the chain, and make sure you're not causing digital clipping, since that'll both sound crappy and not increase the volume as much as you mean to.

 

For straight-up volume boost, have a footswitch change the level of the final output block, or insert a gain block late in the chain and switch it on and off. You get more flexibility using an EQ block instead, since you can boost or cut whatever frequencies you want, in addition to increasing signal level. Also several of the distortion blocks in Helix are quite commonly used with low gain settings to push amps or other overdrives harder, plus add a little drive of their own, and maybe tailor frequency response somewhat. More than one slight overdrive in series can be really nice. Teemah! and Minotaur are probably the ones most commonly used that way, but try any of them, see what you get.

[talonmm]

any idea why I clear out all the controller assignments, make a volume boost, assign it to fs2, save, then jump around to new tones, comeback, and the fs2 will either say (multi) and/'or no longer work or change the loudness.

 

This is maddening!

 

Thanks

[zooey]

Hmmm, sorry you're having so much trouble.

 

You need to be more specific about what exactly you're doing, assigning a footswitch to bypass a block is a basic thing that really does work :)

Couple things to look into...

Are you using snapshots? If so, there's a global setting for whether changes you make are kept or discarded when you switch to another snapshot and back. Both modes are handy, depending on what you're trying to do, but you do need to be aware of how that's set.

When a switch says Multiple, it just means there's more than one block it's set to bypass, like you'd guess. It says that as soon as you make a second bypass assignment, unless you've already customized its label, in which case it won't change until you change it manually. Cusotm label or not, I can't think of a scenario where a switch would change from some other label to Multiple just from navigating to another sound and back, whether it's a preset or a snapshot. There has to be something else you're doing to assign something else to it.

 

Similarly, a footswitch assigned to a bypass block and saved shouldn't unassign itself. There has to be something else going on.

 

Maybe make a video of this happening if you can? If not, go really slow and describe every micro-step you're doing, I'm sure someone here can help get to the bottom of this.

[WickedFinger]

Think its been covered, but yeah wahs sound better as a filter upfront, a gain clean boost will drive the amp more into distortion in front without raising the level, gain or boost after the amp raises the level for a solo lift,

Easy to just turn up the amp ch vol or add an EQ block after the amp than farm out to a pedal for that need.

I use the Helix wahs then a loop out to my fav drives and high gains return before the amp. I use Cali EQ blocks for any level change or you can snapshot the amp ch vol and raise it up a little. 

[talonmm]

I finally got the helix wah in the early part of the chain to work exactly on my tones as I want.  I believe the trick that finally worked is when modifying a tone, get the on/off wah to start exactly as you like, then make sure the sound is perfect and then save the tone.  (I'm not talking about snapshots but say, the default snapshot 1 each time) .  Now with the wah engaged or not engaged at time of starting the tone, I can avoid using a stand along wah which solves half of my challanges.

 

Next I will work on the gain that can be used in Helix and see if perhaps I was programming changes and then saving them on gain which may have changed the sound I was trying to set up.

 

Thanks!