Variax Ghost Notes?

[spmartin]

O.K. I have a weird problem. If this is the wrong thread, please redirect me to anyone who would be able to help. 

 

When using the piezo pickups, on standard tuning, everything sounds fine on all models. However, when I move into, say, DADGAD, then my high B and E strings both sound like they've got ghost notes. I've tried to modify it in Workbench with no luck. These ghost notes appear in many of the alt tunings. I have also put a damper behind the nut to see if that would help. Any insights from anyone? I am a novice at this Variax thing. I've had it about a week. The "stellar" line 6 documentation does not seem to give me any clues. 

Any help will be greatly appreciated!! Thanks.

Steve

Edited September 1, 2013 by TheRealZap
Moved post to own topic

[ozbadman]

O.K. I have a weird problem. If this is the wrong thread, please redirect me to anyone who would be able to help. 

 

When using the piezo pickups, on standard tuning, everything sounds fine on all models. However, when I move into, say, DADGAD, then my high B and E strings both sound like they've got ghost notes. I've tried to modify it in Workbench with no luck. These ghost notes appear in many of the alt tunings. I have also put a damper behind the nut to see if that would help. Any insights from anyone? I am a novice at this Variax thing. I've had it about a week. The "stellar" line 6 documentation does not seem to give me any clues. 

Any help will be greatly appreciated!! Thanks.

Steve

Steve, it's the correct forum, but you need to start your own thread on this topic in order to maximize your chance of someone replying. Just start a new thread and copy what you wrote into it.

[spmartin]

Steve, it's the correct forum, but you need to start your own thread on this topic in order to maximize your chance of someone replying. Just start a new thread and copy what you wrote into it.

Thanks for your help. If I don't get a response, I will just call Sweetwater, or Line 6.

[Mr_Arkadin]

Are you absolutely sure you're not hearing the guitar acoustically in addition to the Variax, i.e. is your amp loud enough to mask the guitar's acoustic sound, or use headphones to check. One way to test if it's coming through the output is to record it. If it's there in the recording then you have a problem.

[toneman2121]

try a new battery

[spmartin]

Mr_Arkadin - the sound is present in headphones. Thanks for the suggestion

 

Toneman2121 - I don't happen to have a new battery, but the one I have is fully charged, and seems to work well.

[spmartin]

Tomorrow I will make a recording and post it to SoundCloud. Then, I'll put a link here.

[spmartin]

O.K. for anyone interested in hearing these strange notes, I recorded a sample. Again, thanks in advance for any ideas. This was recorded clean using a Yamaha THR10 and an Apogee MiC.

http://goo.gl/2oaVhr

[clay-man]

O.K. for anyone interested in hearing these strange notes, I recorded a sample. Again, thanks in advance for any ideas. This was recorded clean using a Yamaha THR10 and an Apogee MiC.

http://goo.gl/2oaVhr

 

"we can't find that"

Your link is broken. If you're getting weird ringing notes, it might be your strings behind the nut ringing and traveling to the piezo. Arnold made a video about this. Putting velcro or a hairtie, or something that'll mute the part of the strings behind the nut will stop that.

[spmartin]

Thanks Clay-man. Link should be fixed now. Here is an updated URL.

 

http://snd.sc/15S79pw

 

BTW, I do have dampening material under my strings in back of the nut (thanks to a post on this forum). Did not seem to make any difference. Thanks for pointing it out though! Now I gotta hit the sack..1:15am on the east coast!

[clay-man]

You need to turn up your amp to drown out the acoustic sound of your strings (the natural sound directly from the strings, not the guitar)

 

This is something you'll have to face with the Variax since it's not actually physically altering the tuning, but rather processing the signal to a different pitch.

I know it might be annoying, but you can drown out the strings without being too loud.

[ozbadman]

O.K. for anyone interested in hearing these strange notes, I recorded a sample. Again, thanks in advance for any ideas. This was recorded clean using a Yamaha THR10 and an Apogee MiC.

http://goo.gl/2oaVhr

 

Instead of recording with a Mic, you need to record directly from the JTV plugged into your recording device to make sure you are only getting the processed signal. See if the weird notes go away under those conditions.

[Mr_Arkadin]

Instead of recording with a Mic, you need to record directly from the JTV plugged into your recording device to make sure you are only getting the processed signal.

 

Yeah that's what I meant by providing a recording - needs to be direct into the computer from the guitar otherwise it's impossible to rule out weird acoustic effects from your room.

[Kcharriq]

I have the same problem with mine but much worse than yours on all 6 strings.

Strings 1,2,3,4 are the worst (high E, B, G, D).

 

If you find something that works I'm very interested.

I've tried changing strings, updating firmware. Damping the other strings with my fingers.

[spmartin]

I have the same problem with mine but much worse than yours on all 6 strings.

Strings 1,2,3,4 are the worst (high E, B, G, D).

 

If you find something that works I'm very interested.

I've tried changing strings, updating firmware. Damping the other strings with my fingers.

I plan to contact Line6 today to see what they can tell me. (wish me luck with them). Also, maybe the techs at Sweetwater will have some ideas. According to my sales rep, they have sold about 2,500 of these Variaxes. They must have heard about this issue. I even tried recreating the DADGAD tuning using the virtual capo function. I believe it helped clear up the high B string a bit. It's still way off.

[BigChas52]

There are two things to check to make sure that it is truly working incorrectly . . .

 

1.  In Workbench, make sure that the "Magnetics Blend" (bottom right hand corner) is set all the way off, or left.

2.  Do your recording directly into your PC, without using a microphone.  You may be getting some bleed through from the physical strings, which could affect what you hear, as well as your recording if you're using a microphone.

 

If you can hear the ghost notes in the recording, if recorded totally direct, then you do have a problem.

[spmartin]

Here is a new recording. 

https://soundcloud.com/smartin1008/ghost-notes

 

This has 3 samples all recorded directly into Garageband using Apogee Jam interface. 1)All 6 strings, in standard tuning, using magnetic pickups. 2) All six strings, in standard tuning, using piezo on T-Model setting. 3)All six strings using Piezo pickup on DADGAD tuning. Other alternative tunings have other strings with pronounced ghost notes also.

[spmartin]

There are two things to check to make sure that it is truly working incorrectly . . .

 

1.  In Workbench, make sure that the "Magnetics Blend" (bottom right hand corner) is set all the way off, or left.

2.  Do your recording directly into your PC, without using a microphone.  You may be getting some bleed through from the physical strings, which could affect what you hear, as well as your recording if you're using a microphone.

 

If you can hear the ghost notes in the recording, if recorded totally direct, then you do have a problem.

Thanks for your feedback. Magnetics Blend is off. I just uploaded the new recording. Check it out.

[BigChas52]

Yup.  It's certainly there; especially pronounced on the high E string.  Another thing you might want to try is re-flashing the firmware and see if that helps.

[spmartin]

Thanks BigChas52. I have re-installed the firmware. Did not seem to make a difference. I would think that it is a piezo pickup, but it works fine in standard tuning. Just gets whacky in alt tunings. Also, the strings that have the ghost notes vary from DADGAD to Blues G etc. Strange. I opened a support ticket with Line 6, and sent them a link to the audio file. We'll see what they say. You have none of these issues?

[TheRealZap]

just a note.. try reflashing back to 1.7x and then flash to the latest....from there...

i've seen this work... not 100% of the time... but for some reason this can clear some lingering issues...

worth a shot if you want to give it a go...

[BigChas52]

Thanks BigChas52. I have re-installed the firmware. Did not seem to make a difference. I would think that it is a piezo pickup, but it works fine in standard tuning. Just gets whacky in alt tunings. Also, the strings that have the ghost notes vary from DADGAD to Blues G etc. Strange. I opened a support ticket with Line 6, and sent them a link to the audio file. We'll see what they say. You have none of these issues?

I'm pretty much a plain vanilla type player.  It's nice that the alt tunings are there, but I don't use them.

[spmartin]

I have begun exploring alternate tunings pretty recently. I remember what a big Aha it was when I realized that a bunch of  the Stones songs were done in Open G. Why I did not know that years ago is a mystery. Do yourself a favor and play with DADGAD a bit. There are some great intro videos on youtube. It's a magical sound. The other one I like is "Nashville Tuning". I have a separate guitar set up for that tuning - because it requires special strings. On the Variax, I just turn a knob. Sweet.

[Kcharriq]

I gave up on alt turnings, mine sounded so bad.

If I turned my amp up 3/4 vol (dt 25), it sounded better, but was way too loud.

[spmartin]

Well, if nothing else, I know that I am not the only one experiencing the problem. I has to be in the way the CPU is processing the signal because the ghost notes are different with various alt. tunings. If Line 6 does not have a solution to this, then they are fraudulently marketing that feature of the guitar!

[toneman2121]

, then they are fraudulently marketing that feature of the guitar!

sue 'em

[Kcharriq]

I don't believe this is occur on all the guitars. I know someone who has one and it works just fine.

I've tried them out in the stores and they don't have the same problem.

 

I hope L6 is able to provide some help.

[spmartin]

Nah, not the suing type. I just want a fix!

[clay-man]

I gave up on alt turnings, mine sounded so bad.

If I turned my amp up 3/4 vol (dt 25), it sounded better, but was way too loud.

 

I love the alt tuning on my Variax. If it didn't work I wouldn't be satisfied. It's something I use extensively since I play a lot of bands' music with different tunings. It's one of the main reasons I love this guitar.

 

This is why I'm never going to buy a used JTV. It's tempting, but I'd rather have a warranty and the ability to return it to the store if it's broke available. 

[spmartin]

clay-man - you are so right. I've been tempted many times to pick up a used JTV, but did not for that very reason. I actually got mine from Sweetwater, and they, as you probably know, extend Line 6's warranty another full year. All parts and labor are covered. I would just need to pay shipping to and from Line 6 during the second year. I've never heard a hint of how much the CPU would cost to replace in the new Variax if you needed to buy it out of warranty. Probably pretty cheap to make, but lots of mark up on the retail end. There are some connections on that board that are not being used. I'd love to find a schematic for it, so I could see what handles what functions.

[Kcharriq]

just a note.. try reflashing back to 1.7x and then flash to the latest....from there...

i've seen this work... not 100% of the time... but for some reason this can clear some lingering issues...

worth a shot if you want to give it a go...

I tried this and it was much better with version 1.7 (not completely gone). When I updated back to 2.0 (1.7 -> 2.0) the problem was back and maybe worse than before.

[TheRealZap]

sorry to hear that, i think your guitar needs service. but i might try version 1.83 (because i hate giving up easy...)

1.83 made some structural changes in the software... (required for the hd acoustics), and maybe these differences will matter? maybe not?

but it's something to try until line6 gets you're guitar into service.

[spmartin]

I think it's kinda crazy to purchase a guitar and have to send it back the first week. Does not speak very highly of their Quality Control systems. 

[TheRealZap]

True, but the hardware etc is essentially a computer inside of this guitar, and it worked fine with the initial "software" installed.

the update is apparently either not taking correctly or exposing some tolerances internally that aren't quite up to the job.

it is a horrible situation for the owner no doubt... but we're simply not talking about something as simple as a standard guitar.

 

I think it's kinda crazy to purchase a guitar and have to send it back the first week. Does not speak very highly of their Quality Control systems. 

[clay-man]

True, but the hardware etc is essentially a computer inside of this guitar, and it worked fine with the initial "software" installed.

the update is apparently either not taking correctly or exposing some tolerances internally that aren't quite up to the job.

it is a horrible situation for the owner no doubt... but we're simply not talking about something as simple as a standard guitar.

 

Do newly made Variaxes get update to the latest firmware, or has it stayed 1.7 and you have to upgrade manually regardless of when the Variax was made?

[TheRealZap]

I honestly don't know... i know that sweetwater was updating their before shipping... I have no idea what the factory is sending out.

[Charlie_Watt]

My JTV came with 2.0 installed but Sweetwater was nice enough to upgrade it.  That eliminated the risk for me to have to send it back if the upgrade failed.  I would strongly recommend that anyone purchasing a new JTV get it upgraded as part of the purchase agreement.  We have seen some problems with the upgrade related in this forum.  It's hard to tell what percentage of the upgrades had problems because we do not have that data.  There are many variables when doing this kind of upgrade.  (PC, interface, cables, SW)

[guitarno]

I am a new Variax (59) and HD500X user. I bought the variax mostly for the guitar emulations and alternate tunings. All the alternate tunings sounded pretty good in the store. When I got the Variax set up at home, it was at ver 1.7. I updated it to the current version (2.0), and now I have the same problem you have described. Pretty much makes any alternate tuning it happens on useless. Absolutely can't have the original non-altered notes bleeding through. In my case it is definately NOT the acoustic sound of the strings, the original notes are being amplified through the system somehow.

 

   I barely know how to use the Variax workbench yet, but I tried to check if the "Mag Pickup Blend" feature was somehow getting turned on for the alternate tunings, but so far I haven't found that to be the case, but as I said, I don't know my way around that piece of software yet.

 

   You are definately not alone on this problem, and I am really looking for a resolution to this as the alternate tunings are important to me. Hope someone finds an answer, or it turns out to be a glitch that gets fixed in an update soon. The "Mag Pickup Blend" is a great feature as it adds a  little more realism to the modelled emulations, but absolutely should not happen if using an alternate tuning.

[TheRealZap]

I highly suggest anyone having these issues open a support ticket.

http://line6.com/support/tickets/

this will get you the attention you may need to get this fixed...

the more people that report the issue and work with them, the better chance they have of locating the root cause and fixing it for everyone.

[guitarno]

Yes, very good idea. I will double check things to get my facts straight when I get home tonight, and will open a support ticket so they know about it.