Wet Dry Wet (WDW) & Delay Mix 100%

[yoMuzicMan]

Using Helix Rack firmware 2.01.  I'm not using any amps...simply listening to the output of the Helix Rack through the main outputs to my studio monitors.

 

I've seen this video on Youtube showing how to setup a patch with a amp/cab going straight to Multi out with a delay and reverb setup in parallel.

 

 

I've setup a patch exactly like he has in the video.  And in the video he says to set the mix of the delay to 100%.  When I have the mix of the delay at 50% or less, the dry signal is clear and loud with some delay.  But as I set the delay mix louder than 50% the output level of the dry mix goes down.  I was under the assumption the dry mix would be unaltered as I set the dry mix to 100%.

 

What am I doing wrong, or is this working as expected?

 

Thanks.

[phil_m]

I think you might be misunderstanding how the mix parameter is working. Like Sean said, it acts like a crossfade between the dry and wet signal going through the block. So when it's at 50, both the wet and dry are at 100%. So on your parallel, wet path If you have the mix parameter on the delay set to anything other than 100, you'll still have a dry signal going through that block, and that combines with the dry signal on your dry path to make the overall dry signal louder. Once you set the mix to 100, you only have wet going through the wet path, and dry going through the dry path.

[yoMuzicMan]

phil_m, great explanation about what I'm experiencing.  Makes sense.  But I 'm confused about the benefit of parallel vs serial routing.  

 

In a serial routing setup with just amp/cab and delay blocks, and with the delay mix at 50%, the amp and delay are at full volume.  Correct?  

 

In a parallel routing setup, with the amp/cab doing straight out and the delay in parallel with the mix at 100%, don't I have the same thing I have using serial routing with the delay mix at 50%?

 

Thanks.

[hankmadison]

I am confused about this, too. I watched Sean Halley's original video and tried it on my setup. However, when I turned the mix up to 100% on the "wet" path, my dry sound also diminished -- just as if it had been in a serial path. Not sure what I'm missing here. Anyone else? 

[phil_m]

I am confused about this, too. I watched Sean Halley's original video and tried it on my setup. However, when I turned the mix up to 100% on the "wet" path, my dry sound also diminished -- just as if it had been in a serial path. Not sure what I'm missing here. Anyone else? 

 

It's like I said above - when you first add a parallel path, you're doubling up on the dry signal, so when you start moving the mix parameter past 50%, the dry signal in the parallel starts decreasing. When you have it 100%, you're left with only wet signal in the parallel path, so the dry sound overall won't be as loud as it originally was when you first added the path.

[hankmadison]

I see now. I hadn't perceived the jump in volume when the parallel path was created. I started with a clean patch this time and was able to hear it now. Thanks.

[phil_m]

I see now. I hadn't perceived the jump in volume when the parallel path was created. I started with a clean patch this time and was able to hear it now. Thanks.

 

IIRC, when you create a parallel path, I don't think there is a volume jump. I think the Helix applies something like a 3dB cut to each path so that level remains the same. However, once you start moving the mix past 50%, the dry signal in the parallel will start decreasing, so then you will hear an overall decrease. So actually, I think that creating a parallel and killing the dry signal can cause a slight drop in the overall dry level. It's easy enough to compensate for it at the output block, though.

[radatats]

The difference with the parallel path is your dry signal is never affected by the FX.  In a serial path your signal hits the delay and then the reverb, etc.  Your dry signal and the delays are both then processed by the reverb and it tends to multiply with more effects. Each block mixes what it sees on its input with the effected tone, not necessarily an actual dry tone.  After two or three blocks there is no real dry tone left.  By using a parallel path you keep the dry tone unaffected all the way to the end.  If you are only using one effect there really is no benefit since the actual dry tone is passed through.

 

It isn't mandatory to set the effects to 100% though.  If you do, then only the delay repeats will come through and be processed by the reverb, etc.   You  can do that but may want to use an exp pedal or volume block to control the final mix with your dry signal.  I also like to separate the outputs too rather than mixing them back together in the original path.  I do see a volume jump with parallel paths but as long as you are aware of it you can manage it.