Signal path question

[Paulzx]

I don't really understand all the different options for the signal routing so thought best to just ask about what I want to do specifically.

 

Right now all my patches are single path just using the top path, simple amp and cab a few effects and that's it.

 

But I'm wondering if I can make a bigger wider amp sound by running the same or similar amp in the second path.

 

Does it really make a bigger sound by running two paths with two amps or am I just needlessly doubling up on the same thing?

 

And is there really any benefit in putting a single amp then a single cab in the path as opposed to using the amp + cab option instead?

 

I'm running two alto speakers and trying to get a spicier amp sound really.

[PeterHamm]

You don't want exactly the same thing in the second path, but imho, a slightly different sound with a different cab or mic model or both, might make you really really happy.

 

That said, first thing is just use the path you have now, but put a dual cab in instead of a single, especially if you're able to run stereo.

[Verne-Bunsen]

I generally divide the blocks in my patches between both paths. Generally I have front-of-amp effects and the amp(s) on path 1, which I then route down to the input of path two. Path two generally has cabs/IRs, reverbs and any other after-amp effects. Lots of room that way. For a "bigger/fuller" sound, I'll typically look at a second cab/IR in parallel with the first as opposed to running a second amp simultaneously.

[Paulzx]

You don't want exactly the same thing in the second path, but imho, a slightly different sound with a different cab or mic model or both, might make you really really happy.

 

That said, first thing is just use the path you have now, but put a dual cab in instead of a single, especially if you're able to run stereo.

Thanks Peter, so just use path A and start with amp+cab block then add a second cab only block and that will produce the stereo effect?

[PeterHamm]

Thanks Peter, so just use path A and start with amp+cab block then add a second cab only block and that will produce the stereo effect?

 

 

I never ever ever ever use an amp+cab block. Too many things (Spring reverb, delay, trem) sound best through "the loop".

 

That's me. I have maybe ONE time used an amp+cab block in a patch, and I don't use that patch...

 

And no, you don't want amp + cab then add a cab, because you'll be essentially running an IR into an IR.

 

I'd run an amp (only) then split to two cabs, or two amps into two different cabs, and for fun, put just a few ms delay at 100% mix and 0% feedback on one of those so it sounds like there's some space. Then play with panning.

[Paulzx]

I never ever ever ever use an amp+cab block. Too many things (Spring reverb, delay, trem) sound best through "the loop".

 

That's me. I have maybe ONE time used an amp+cab block in a patch, and I don't use that patch...

 

And no, you don't want amp + cab then add a cab, because you'll be essentially running an IR into an IR.

 

I'd run an amp (only) then split to two cabs, or two amps into two different cabs, and for fun, put just a few ms delay at 100% mix and 0% feedback on one of those so it sounds like there's some space. Then play with panning.

Thank you for the advice, I will try this

[jbuhajla]

Each path is already stereo, it just doesn't "look" that way on the interface. The signal path is stereo until it hits a block that is mono. All amp models, cabs, and IRs are mono. After your cab/IR block, you can drop in a stereo effect, and the signal path is once again stereo. 

 

A good way to save DSP power is to run all your effects before an amp model as mono (unless you are splitting your path between two amps). Save your stereo effects for after the cab/IR (assuming you are using just one). 

[jbuhajla]

This made me think of an Ideascale idea. Have the signal path change color depending if it is stereo or mono. The signal path is normally a color indicating stereo. When you add a mono block, the signal path after that would be a different color. If the mono path hit a stereo block or merges with another mono path, the path then becomes the color of stereo again. 

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Helix-signal-path-stereo-mono-indicator/867136-23508?submitted=1

[MusicLaw]

For decades compelling sounds have resulted from signal routing and FX applied in non-standard ways!

 

HELIX allows this to be easily explored. Let your ears be your guide. Season to taste. There is no right nor wrong. And, you can't break anything!

[Paulzx]

This made me think of an Ideascale idea. Have the signal path change color depending if it is stereo or mono. The signal path is normally a color indicating stereo. When you add a mono block, the signal path after that would be a different color. If the mono path hit a stereo block or merges with another mono path, the path then becomes the color of stereo again. 

 

https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Helix-signal-path-stereo-mono-indicator/867136-23508?submitted=1

 

That is a very good idea

[Paulzx]

Having set up a stereo patch with panning left and right for the paths, I can now see why some people say don't bother...

 

It works brilliantly well, but it's too much of an assault on the ears, it's just overload. It's one of those things that sounds like a good idea until you hear it and then realise it's not really usable.

 

I expect there are situations where you can use it, maybe if you're speakers are 30 feet apart, but certainly not in a small room where speakers are within a few metres.

 

Glad I tried it though, and impressed at how it worked.

[PeterHamm]

Having set up a stereo patch with panning left and right for the paths, I can now see why some people say don't bother...

 

It works brilliantly well, but it's too much of an assault on the ears, it's just overload. It's one of those things that sounds like a good idea until you hear it and then realise it's not really usable.

 

I expect there are situations where you can use it, maybe if you're speakers are 30 feet apart, but certainly not in a small room where speakers are within a few metres.

 

Glad I tried it though, and impressed at how it worked.

 

 

I don't ever use that stuff live, but it's cool in a recording if you aren't making an army of guitar sounds.

 

But you are right about "overload". That's why guys who use a lot of stereo in a band with other guitarists find that they are lost in the mix. It's cause their sound is so huge the sound guy pulls it way back in the monitors.