sandman69 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Well I finally pulled the trigger and my new Helix will be arriving tomorrow. I have been cram reading and watching tons of videos and documentation to get ready for the upgrade. I have been using the dream rig (Variax JTV59 -> HD500 -> DT25) for quite some time and felt it was time to upgrade. I actually rarely use the DT25 since when I play at Church I just plug into the PA because we like quiet stage and have no isolation booths for amps and the last few times I have jammed with my buddies I did the same so I decided to sell the DT25 and use that to get the Helix and keep the HD500 as a backup. I remember with the HD500 there was things that needed be changed in the global settings to ensure you got the best or similar sound from the PA as you do when using the headphones. Are there any good starting pointers to get going with the new unit? Any gotchas, pointers or anything else I would find useful? Good must have setlists/presets out there? I have read about getting some third party IRs are very important and have looked at a few offerings there. How are the new ones the Line6 recently released? Good enough improvement over the stock, without worrying about buying others? I have to wrap my head around the whole snapshot thing. Still not sure what makes them different than multiple presets. I haven't been this excited for a new piece of gear in quite some time. The Variax probably the last. Simply love that thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Don't use the Global EQ when going direct. Check this out for some Worship starter patches. I haven't purchase any but they have a few free ones. https://www.worshiptutorials.com/helix/ I've purchased patches from these two guys https://fremenpresets.com/ https://www.glenndelaune.com/helix-patches.htm Fremen, I got the megapak. Glenn I got the Custom artist Vol I & II Both I would say were worth it just in the time saved but I don't think I will buy anymore patches from anyone anytime soon. They both also have a bunch of IR's that they have made themselves that come with the patches. Glenn's are created specifically for the artist. For example, the Boston patch has a Boston IR. There are a lot of Youtube videos demonstrating their patches. There are a ton of Helix tutorials on Youtube. There are a bunch here that are a good place to start. His name is Jason Sadites. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvhdK4-QIzo76Y_RIbxZctg Try the cabs first. I'd say the vote is about 50-50 about whether you need IR's or not. I personally don't use that many. Line 6 has some for free that I would say are a good place to start. I think there's 4. https://line6.com/allure/ Good luck. I had an HD500 also and love how the Helix sounds and works. Haven't touched the HD500 since I've got it. It's now my backup if I ever need one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhead Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 .. I have to wrap my head around the whole snapshot thing. Still not sure what makes them different than multiple presets. ..... There are two basic things that distinguish snapshots from multiple presets: 1) Different presets can contain arbitrary combinations of different amps and fx blocks in any given order in the signal chain. Snapshots operate within a single preset, meaning that you cannot change the selection of the models themselves nor their relative positions in the signal chain. You can, however, change any amp/fx model's bypass (on/off) state and change up to 64 of their combined parameter values - all with a single footswitch. 2) Snapshots provide instantaneous switching of multiple block bypass states and parameter values without the need to reload working memory with different amp/fx models. This means there is no lag (audio dropout) when switching snapshots as there inevitably is when switching presets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Well I finally pulled the trigger and my new Helix will be arriving tomorrow. I have been cram reading and watching tons of videos and documentation to get ready for the upgrade. I have been using the dream rig (Variax JTV59 -> HD500 -> DT25) for quite some time and felt it was time to upgrade. I actually rarely use the DT25 since when I play at Church I just plug into the PA because we like quiet stage and have no isolation booths for amps and the last few times I have jammed with my buddies I did the same so I decided to sell the DT25 and use that to get the Helix and keep the HD500 as a backup. I remember with the HD500 there was things that needed be changed in the global settings to ensure you got the best or similar sound from the PA as you do when using the headphones. Are there any good starting pointers to get going with the new unit? Any gotchas, pointers or anything else I would find useful? Good must have setlists/presets out there? I have read about getting some third party IRs are very important and have looked at a few offerings there. How are the new ones the Line6 recently released? Good enough improvement over the stock, without worrying about buying others? I have to wrap my head around the whole snapshot thing. Still not sure what makes them different than multiple presets. I haven't been this excited for a new piece of gear in quite some time. The Variax probably the last. Simply love that thing. Check out Worshiptutorials.com. They have some presets you can purchase that may get you going for church in the short term. If you have any P&W specific questions pertaining to the Helix, feel free to message me directly. Been using mine at church for about a year and a half now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug6String Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 You have some L6 modeling experience so that'll help! But your questions have so many variables to consider. Patience might be needed as you figure out how to get your sound. Here are a couple thoughts. Helix cabs vs others' IRs - many people on this Forum that know a lot recommend starting with the Helix cabs before buying IRs. Others (incl me) only use IRs. I have heard plenty of examples of presets using Helix cabs that sound great, so maybe you want to start with cabs. If you know nothing about mics and cabs, RedWirez has a nice (free) couple pages on this on using their IRs that is also relevant to using Helix mics as a starting point. The other thing that I think most on the Forum would agree with is, create your own presets. Buying some is one way to learn how others do this, but I think most of us do not use many of the factory presets, and while some love the presets they buy, many of us don't use those either. This Forum took me from wondering why the heck I wasted $1400 on a Helix to it being my single most important piece of gear so you're in great hands here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Chances are the transition to the Helix will feel pretty normal coming from the HD500 side of the house. The signal chain layout and different types of blocks will feel pretty normal although much more expanded and easier to navigate. That being the case, if you've been building your own presets you'll be comfortable doing so on the Helix as well. I will say there are some things that happen in the HD world that you WON'T want to bring with you. In particular the Global EQ. Although it's likely you'll need some form of high and low cuts on certain types of patches, you have plenty of ability to adjust that within the patch itself, and no adjustment is ever going to be consistent across different patches that use different amps, different cabinets, different mic configurations and so forth. If you want a really good place to start I'd HIGHLY recommend Jason Sadites series on building patches on YouTube. It's far and away the most comprehensive tutorial out there and will provide you with some of the best techniques for dialing in your patches on the Helix. In that regard you may want to think about whether you've got an ample home system to simulate what you'll be playing through at church. You mentioned headphones, but those can be somewhat tricky since many are meant for consumer use, not pro studio use. There are some good ones out there that are very popular with lots of Helix users such as the Beyerdynamic DT770 80 ohm as well as others. Otherwise you might want to consider getting some good studio monitors or, better yet, a FRFR powered speaker which will be the closest to the sound you'll be getting from the PA. I personally use a Yamaha DXR12 at home, but there are others that will do just as well. In terms of snapshots, they're very easy to use and understand...but also very easy to overuse as well. You need to spend some time and read about them and understand the limitations. Ultimately snapshots are limited to the DSP available in a single patch. If you have broad transitions that incorporate different amps or effects they can be useful. But whatever amps, cabs, effects, etc. are in the patch and are used in the different snapshots will count against the DSP limit within the patch whether they're turned on or not. Just something to remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 ... you may want to think about whether you've got an ample home system to simulate what you'll be playing through at church. You mentioned headphones, but those can be somewhat tricky since many are meant for consumer use, not pro studio use. There are some good ones out there that are very popular with lots of Helix users such as the Beyerdynamic DT770 80 ohm as well as others. Otherwise you might want to consider getting some good studio monitors or, better yet, a FRFR powered speaker which will be the closest to the sound you'll be getting from the PA. I personally use a Yamaha DXR12 at home, but there are others that will do just as well. This is something I did within a month or two of transitioning to Helix. We play through a QSC based PA with Q10s as the majority of the mains. So, I purchased JBL EON 610s since they are a cheaper equivalent. I try to do a final setup on my presets at fairly robust volumes to ensure they sound full and not too boomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman69 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 Don't use the Global EQ when going direct. Check this out for some Worship starter patches. I haven't purchase any but they have a few free ones. https://www.worshiptutorials.com/helix/ I've purchased patches from these two guys https://fremenpresets.com/ https://www.glenndelaune.com/helix-patches.htm Fremen, I got the megapak. Glenn I got the Custom artist Vol I & II Both I would say were worth it just in the time saved but I don't think I will buy anymore patches from anyone anytime soon. They both also have a bunch of IR's that they have made themselves that come with the patches. Glenn's are created specifically for the artist. For example, the Boston patch has a Boston IR. There are a lot of Youtube videos demonstrating their patches. There are a ton of Helix tutorials on Youtube. There are a bunch here that are a good place to start. His name is Jason Sadites. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvhdK4-QIzo76Y_RIbxZctg Try the cabs first. I'd say the vote is about 50-50 about whether you need IR's or not. I personally don't use that many. Line 6 has some for free that I would say are a good place to start. I think there's 4. https://line6.com/allure/ Good luck. I had an HD500 also and love how the Helix sounds and works. Haven't touched the HD500 since I've got it. It's now my backup if I ever need one. Thanks for all the information. I have actually been watching a lot of worshiptutorials videos about the Helix and downloaded their free AC30 presets. I really like making my own presets on the HD500. Some I downloaded from custom tone and tweak, and many others I create from scratch. Seems like the Helix opened up the market for purchasing presets much more than the HD500 had. As well as the IRs. I have to get my head wrapped around this whole concept. Anyone can make their own IR using the built-in ones as a starting point, correct? Or are special utilities needed to create them? I understand what they are doing, but not the underlying process of creation. Yeah I have been spending the past month on youtube watching countless videos on youtube listening to the comparisons between the AX8 and Headrush and the rest. I pretty much was locked into the Helix, since I have my Variax that I love being able to control directly from the POD, and it looks like the Helix makes it even easier to do. I was going to sell the HD500 along with the DT25; however, I decided to keep the POD for a backup as well as letting my son mess around with it as well as my les paul. Got him an acoustic for Christmas and he is finally putting some effort into learning the instrument. So think the POD would help his excitement with it. Anything to get him off of Computer games and XBOX. Check out Worshiptutorials.com. They have some presets you can purchase that may get you going for church in the short term. If you have any P&W specific questions pertaining to the Helix, feel free to message me directly. Been using mine at church for about a year and a half now. Thanks, will definitely keep that in mind. Don't think the whole process will change too much from the HD500 in regard to worship at the church. However, if I think of anything in particular will definitely hit you up once I get the unit. Hoping Fedex shows up early. Planning on taking off work early, get home and get it setup for tomorrow night's rehearsal. Love Came Down, The Glory is Yours, Broken Vessels (Amazing Grace) & He is Jesus is up this week. Four relative regulars. Shouldn't be too hard to setup for these. This is something I did within a month or two of transitioning to Helix. We play through a QSC based PA with Q10s as the majority of the mains. So, I purchased JBL EON 610s since they are a cheaper equivalent. I try to do a final setup on my presets at fairly robust volumes to ensure they sound full and not too boomy. I typically use the headphone out into the iMAC and use my Shure In Ears to play. I have been looking at some studio monitors. I always had a hit and miss issues with the USB out to the computer, I am hoping the Helix helps that. Can't really remember what it did, since it has been a long time since I used it. I will say there are some things that happen in the HD world that you WON'T want to bring with you. In particular the Global EQ. Although it's likely you'll need some form of high and low cuts on certain types of patches, you have plenty of ability to adjust that within the patch itself, and no adjustment is ever going to be consistent across different patches that use different amps, different cabinets, different mic configurations and so forth. If you want a really good place to start I'd HIGHLY recommend Jason Sadites series on building patches on YouTube. It's far and away the most comprehensive tutorial out there and will provide you with some of the best techniques for dialing in your patches on the Helix. In that regard you may want to think about whether you've got an ample home system to simulate what you'll be playing through at church. You mentioned headphones, but those can be somewhat tricky since many are meant for consumer use, not pro studio use. There are some good ones out there that are very popular with lots of Helix users such as the Beyerdynamic DT770 80 ohm as well as others. Otherwise you might want to consider getting some good studio monitors or, better yet, a FRFR powered speaker which will be the closest to the sound you'll be getting from the PA. I personally use a Yamaha DXR12 at home, but there are others that will do just as well. In terms of snapshots, they're very easy to use and understand...but also very easy to overuse as well. You need to spend some time and read about them and understand the limitations. Ultimately snapshots are limited to the DSP available in a single patch. If you have broad transitions that incorporate different amps or effects they can be useful. But whatever amps, cabs, effects, etc. are in the patch and are used in the different snapshots will count against the DSP limit within the patch whether they're turned on or not. Just something to remember. Yeah I read the Global EQ should be updated immediately, also someone posted that the built in gate impacts how the volume roll off on the guitar effects the amp model. I guess that is what you are talking about with the Global EQ. Funny, I found Jason Sadites the other day during my youtube browsing. He has a GREAT channel and still going through his Helix series along with the Line6Support channel which seems to be pretty good as well. I use my Shure In Ears that I use at Church most of the time when I am practicing, however, sometimes I do use my speakers. I do need to upgrade those though. Is there a reason to go with the 80ohm vs the 220ohm? I haven't been this excited for a piece of gear in a long time. My wife may not get to see me much for the next coming few weeks ;) Thanks again everyone for the input I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Yeah I read the Global EQ should be updated immediately, also someone posted that the built in gate impacts how the volume roll off on the guitar effects the amp model. I guess that is what you are talking about with the Global EQ. Thanks again everyone for the input I really appreciate it. I'm not sure what you're referring to as far as updating Global EQ, but I was referring to NOT using Global EQ for anything other than acoustic corrections for a room...NOT as a generalized approach to EQ'ing your patches. First of all it's unnecessary and secondly it's counter-productive given that each patch will require individualized settings based on all sorts of factors with the amp, cab, mic mixes and placements and so forth. Jason Sadites videos will give you plenty of good advise on this at the patch level. But to be honest in two years of using my Helix in live performances every week I've had no reason to adjust anything on Global EQ. As far as the built-in gate on the Input, I suspect that particular warning might come from people that don't understand how gates are configured. The built in gate has settings for threshold and decay so you can control it in the same way as you would most gates. I've used it on certain patches in the past when I had somewhat noisy single coil pickups with no ill effects and haven't had to use it since I've gone to noiseless pickups, but I'd take some of these "superstitions" with a grain of salt and determine it for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Using IEMs to create your patches may work out well for you. When I use mine, I tend to have to cut a little bass when sound checking live. I don't have really high end IEMs though so they don't translate "perfectly" to the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman69 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 O MAN! It has been delivered already! I think I will leave even earlier than I was thinking now!!! What is a couple more hours of leave. I will make it up tomorrow.... maybe.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Basically an IR is this. You get a sound clip consisting of a pure tone that goes through all of frequencies with the same volume (the clips that I've heard go smoothly from low to high). You run that sound clip through your cabinet and record it with the mic of your choice placed where you want. That recording is essentially your IR. As the sound clip runs through all of the frequencies they are either enhanced, neutral or cut depending on the frequency response of your cabinet. So what you essentially have is a wave file that has recorded a representation of your cab's frequency response with that mic place in that position. This is why there are IR collections whose files describe the mic and position of the mic that was used for that wave file recording ad nauseum. That wave file then goes into what's been called an IR loader. This is now your simulation of your cab with that mic placed in a certain position. Put that after your amp/power amp sim and it "EQs" it based on how much the frequencies were cut or enhanced when you originally recorded that wave file. Here's an example of what you can expect in purchasing IRs. This is a company called Ownhammer that many people like. This shows what you get if you order the IR's they created with one cab, a 2001 Mesa Boogie Standard slant 4x12 cabinet. https://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=411 So there are 9 mics they used. They recorded each mic in several different positions on the cab. Let's say 5 (I'm pretty sure it's more). So 9X5=45. You now have 45 IR files and each one will sound slightly different. And I'm pretty sure they actually record more. So IR's are cool but the rabbit hole goes deep. To sum up. Pure tone going through all the frequencies is run through a cab. This is recorded. The recording is now a not so pure tone going through all the frequencies. It's not so pure tone is a representation of how your cab will respond to a signal. Because of this, it can be used to "EQ" your amp sim theoretically making it sound the real amp going through the equipment you used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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