Midi controls yet ?

[rsvette12]

Hi Guys 

 

Did native get midi pedals working yet - been a while since visiting - thanks much 

[soundog]

Yeah, with version 1.6 they added MIDI parameter control: "Helix Native now lets you control parameters via MIDI. In the inspector, right-click (or Control-click) the desired parameter and from the pull-down menu, select Controller Assign > MIDI CC. Then click the Automation/Controller Assign tab and choose the parameter from the list. Adjust the MIDI CC#, Min, and Max Values."

 

The ease and level of MIDI control is DAW dependent at this point. I can use MIDI pedals to control the plug-in real-time from within Logic Pro, but I normally do all the controlling via automation. Of course, HXN is not really intended to serve as a stand-alone software instrument using MIDI buttons and pedals, so that sort of use case is limited, I think. But as a DAW plug-in it should do what you want!

[rsvette12]

Thanks so much thats good news - do you know how you can change snapshots - is it possible now 

[rsvette12]

Read this but no idea how    

• MIDI snapshot select—To select a snapshot in Helix Native, send it a MIDI CC#69 message. Value 0 will recall Snapshot 1, Value 1 will recall Snapshot 2, Value 2 will recall Snapshot 3, and so on.

[rsvette12]

Trying demo assigned a switch to CC#69 worked but does not scroll thru snapshots it loads snapshot 1 then hit button again and it loads the last one in list which is just a place holder snapshot 8 - hmm

[soundog]

For snapshots, check the manual out for "Automating Snapshot Changes." (You use the Automation/Controller Assign Tab.) That's the best way to do it for DAW automation (rather than the CC69 command). There is still a bug in Logic Pro that makes selecting the Snapshot parameter difficult in the automation lane. I've figured out a work around, so let me know if you are using Logic. I think it works OK in other DAWs.

[rsvette12]

Thank you but not what I would like to do - I cant change on the fly between the snapshots - dont think automation does that - to bad you couldnt right click each snapshot version and assign a CC# to it

[soundog]

Yeah, the snapshots change via automation at pre-specified locations in the DAW timeline.

Did you send CC69 with a value (for snapshot number)?

[rsvette12]

Yes I did :) no go - thanks for your help - much appreciated 

[TexLefty65]

On 10/23/2018 at 11:53 AM, rsvette12 said:

Trying demo assigned a switch to CC#69 worked but does not scroll thru snapshots it loads snapshot 1 then hit button again and it loads the last one in list which is just a place holder snapshot 8 - hmm

 

Sending CC#69 with values 0 - 7 works for me to load individual Helix Native snapshots 1 - 8 from my external hardware controller (I'm in Cubase 9.5 on Mac). It sounds like you may be sending a MIDI CC toggle type message if a 2nd press of your footswitch is switching it to snapshot 8 every time (that is, if using a MIDI Toggle message, the 2nd press is sending a value of 127, and any value of 7 - 127 will recall snapshot 8. Therefore, you want to use a straight MIDI CC type message only).

[rsvette12]

Yikes I am not good with this stuff - you mention    "Therefore, you want to use a straight MIDI CC type message only"     how brother ? thanks 

 

I am using a rig kontrol 3 - toggle buttons on the floorboard and reaper

 

Saw this video also worked saw numbers changing in automation but in helix UI they dont change - thought this would be a work around but no go

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhNgYHshG1U

[soundog]

Works fine in Logic Pro.

 

Read your kontrol 3 manual and figure out how to send CC69 with a value. Or get on an NI forum and ask. Use a MIDI monitor inside or outside of Reaper to see what you're sending.

[rsvette12]

Again appreciate your time - this is why I am second guessing HN purchase again I should be able to just go to each snapshot in list and assigning a switch to it - silly not being able to do this - by the way I dont want to do timeline stuff just want to change on the fly and jam away basically - guitar rig did this very easily  

 

see anything glaring here

 

 

 

 

 

[soundog]

I only use HXN as a DAW plugin only, so can't be of much help if you're using as an on-the-fly software instrument. But I'd guess it should work, though, and it sounds like it works with Cubase per TexLefty.

 

That said, I did manage to make it work pretty quickly using Logic Pro's mapping capability via it's Smart Controls (see screen shot). Reaper may do the same sort of thing... you basically map a plug-in-parametr to a controller. Logic uses a Learn function.

 

Is this sort of thing any help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGDsNhodc7Q

 

 

From what I can tell you're setting things up right your CC is set to 24 instead of 69 in your screen shots. Change the Value (to, say, 2 for example) to try changing Snapshots. BUT ... if you're mapping in the DAW via a Learn function, any CC and value should work ...you're just mapping that control # and value to a snapshot.

 

 

[Rewolf48]

CC69 is what the hardware Helix devices use for Snapshot selection so it makes sense for compatibility that Native uses this too

[rsvette12]

Hi Guys thanks much as you can see in pic - 69 has a designation given by reaper so not sure thats the answer also I tried a lot of different numbers - have to go thru your explanation more tonight :) 

 

[soundog]

Things to know that may (or maybe not!) be helpful....

• Use a free software MIDI monitor to see exactly what is being sent from your controller: https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209544729-How-to-Monitor-the-Input-of-a-MIDI-Controller. Without a monitor, you're shooting in the dark.
• Most modern DAWs have a feature to map controller buttons and knobs to plug-in parameters. That's the key to using an external MIDI controller to control a plug-in on an audio channel in the DAW. For your DAW, read up on how to map an external MIDI controller to plug-in parameters. Google is your friend.
• You don't have to use a DAW. Mac and PC both have "plug-in host" software apps that will run a plug-in without all the other bells and whistles. Some good, some bad.
• For something like a "Snapshot foot switch" that turns on a specific Snapshot in HXN, you want the controller switch to send "momentary" data (a value when you push the button, one time), rather than "toggle." A toggle is OK if your controller uses them properly (toggles between a group of switches and lights an associated LED). 
• You don't HAVE to use CC69 for a Snapshot command (thats specified for hardware Helix); you can use any CC# and value, or even a Note On MIDI command. Use the DAW mapping controller mapping feature to map whatever your controller sends to a HXN parameter .
• Use your MIDI monitor to see what your controller is sending when you press each button, and write it all down.
• Map a given controller button to a single HXN Snapshot Index. For example, CC10 Value 3 mapped to Snapshot 3. Or a G3 Note On mapped to Snapshot 5. Whatever...
• If all is working, pressing a controller button will activate the mapped HXN Snapshot.

[rsvette12]

Thanks - lots of home work to do should not be this hard though - GR5 just works but it works out of a daw also so there is the problem for ease I guess - report back :) 

 

 

[rsvette12]

Interesting audacity host vst like GR - have to look into that for sure

[rsvette12]

False alarm coming back to me now - What is the point of recording a dry guitar and adding effects later

[soundog]

Keep in mind GR5 "just works" with your controller because it was designed to work together ..... all made by Native Instruments.

[rsvette12]

Thats true :) 

[russ5254]

hi rsvette12,

i am using helix native v1.6+ reaper + line6 fbv shortboard+ iD4 interface

My FBV footswitches are programmed to change snapshots (see the MIDI CC# and values assignment in the pic).

I use only 6 switches  because some of the others are used for changing presets and arming/selecting tracks.

I use this rig live.

 

1. So you need to program your footswitches by  assigning each of them to CC#69  (i used to use CC#50 and it works too) and send out a single value.

e.g. assign:

footswitch1 CC#69 value:4 - this calls up snapshot 1

footswitch2 CC#69 value:20 - this calls up snapshot 2

footswitch3 CC#69 value:36 - this calls up snapshot 3

footswitch4 CC#69 value:52- this calls up snapshot 4

and so on... because snapshot1 CC values range from 0 to 15, snapshot 2 values is from 15 to 31... etc... interval of 16 (128values/8snapshots=16)

From your screen shots it looks like Rig Control editor may allow you to custom assign CC3 and values.

 

2. in reaper, on your track1 FX window go to "param"->"learn"->"snapshot index",  and the MIDI learn window will appear .

3. step on any of the footswitches so that reaper detects CC#69.

4. your footswitches now control snapshots depending on how you programmed them.

 

 

i guess some of the steps above you probably know (like the MIDI learn part) but just thought i'd share it for completeness sake.

hope this works for u.

[rsvette12]

Wwll done Russ report back tonight for sure - much thanks :)

[rsvette12]

oh you mention "in reaper, on your track1 FX window" is that the helix layer (track) or a new track all by itself ? thanks 

[rsvette12]

You are the MAN besides Sounddog :) it worked had to mess around with NI controller editor but wow great stuff - thanks much Russ :)

 

After you hit learn once as stated you just change number values for each button - learn only needs to be done once only 6 presets setup but pretty straight forward when it works - most pre built tones dont have 8 presets anyway

 

 

 

 

 

[russ5254]

rsvette12, glad that you got it up and running. enjoy!

[rsvette12]

Thanks Buddy :)

[taracatac]

On 11/1/2018 at 12:53 AM, russ5254 said:

hi rsvette12,

i am using helix native v1.6+ reaper + line6 fbv shortboard+ iD4 interface

My FBV footswitches are programmed to change snapshots (see the MIDI CC# and values assignment in the pic).

I use only 6 switches  because some of the others are used for changing presets and arming/selecting tracks.

I use this rig live.

 

1. So you need to program your footswitches by  assigning each of them to CC#69  (i used to use CC#50 and it works too) and send out a single value.

e.g. assign:

footswitch1 CC#69 value:4 - this calls up snapshot 1

footswitch2 CC#69 value:20 - this calls up snapshot 2

footswitch3 CC#69 value:36 - this calls up snapshot 3

footswitch4 CC#69 value:52- this calls up snapshot 4

and so on... because snapshot1 CC values range from 0 to 15, snapshot 2 values is from 15 to 31... etc... interval of 16 (128values/8snapshots=16)

From your screen shots it looks like Rig Control editor may allow you to custom assign CC3 and values.

 

2. in reaper, on your track1 FX window go to "param"->"learn"->"snapshot index",  and the MIDI learn window will appear .

3. step on any of the footswitches so that reaper detects CC#69.

4. your footswitches now control snapshots depending on how you programmed them.

 

 

i guess some of the steps above you probably know (like the MIDI learn part) but just thought i'd share it for completeness sake.

hope this works for u.

How can I program preset changes? I have the snapshots and stomps working, but I can't change to different presets. I am using the FBV Shortboard MK II as well. I am running Native in Mini Host Modular. It lets you run VSTs without an actual DAW.

[soundog]

Native directly supports snapshots and stomps via MIDI, but not preset changes.

[rsvette12]

Interesting question I just change them manually usually because I am learning one song I never need to change preset on the fly so I never tried and sounds like you cant from Soundog's comment

[Petes63Strat]

soundog: You inspired me to buy Helix Native to begin with and I'm glad I did! Since you and I are both on Mac (I am using Logic Pro and I THINK you are too) perhaps you can help me with this: I have spent a great many hours trying to change the Helix Native Snapshots with my external controller but can't make it work. Here is my setup and what I have tried:

 

Logic Pro X with newest Helix Native Plugin

Native Instruments Kontrol Rig 3 Controller (with their Controller Editor Software)

Mac Pro, El Capitan 10.11.6

 

I have done this as mentioned above:

footswitch1 CC#69 value:4 - this calls up snapshot 1

footswitch2 CC#69 value:20 - this calls up snapshot 2

footswitch3 CC#69 value:36 - this calls up snapshot 3

footswitch4 CC#69 value:52- this calls up snapshot 4

Etc.

 

I then performed the "Learn" function for button #1 on my controller and the Helix Snapshot Index which seems to yield the correct on-screen response (and I then disable LEARN). Pretty straight forward. However, when I then test the controller buttons only Button #1 does anything at all and all it does is sequences through all of the Snapshots to the next higher number each time I press the button, the other buttons provide no reaction. When I study the "learn" window in Logic I can confirm that it is in fact receiving the 'CC#69 value:4' as it should (since I have used button #1 with Learn). I have tried what seems to be everything but clearly something is missing. I know that revette12 (who has been enormously helpful) has had success with his Kontrol Rig 3 controller and changing Helix Native Snapshots but he is using a PC and his Studio One DAW, not a MAC and Logic Pro, so he too is stumped at this moment where my setup is concerned. There are an awful lot of choices via several drop-downs within Logic's Learn window that I do not understand. I have tested many of them but of course there are an endless amount of combinations so the problem might lay there.  Can you suggest anything that might help us move this along because I am out of tricks. 

 

* I have also tried  0-7 as an alternative to the numbers above (4,20,36,52,etc.) and other CC numbers as well. No luck. In the end Helix sees only the single button that I used with the Learn feature, and no others.

 

 

[rsvette12]

Dog hope you can lend a hand - Pete's a great guy - thanks much :)

[soundog]

Good start! Here’s an easy approach you can try...

 

1) Assign any “Knobs” and “Switches” (you can use up to 16 each) to any footswitch toggles or parameters you want to control in Helix, using the Automation/Controller Assign tab. Write down your assignments. (It sounds like you've already done this).

 

2) Use Logic Pro’s “Smart Controls” to map your MIDI controllers MIDI commands to your Knob and Switch Assigns. (Its similar the the Learn function you're using, but simplified and streamlined.) Look up some Youtube videos on how to use Logic's Smart Controls. Basically, you select Helix Native as the plug-in; use the Parameter Mapping pull-down menu to select the Knob, Switch, or Snapshot Index you want to effect; turn on the Smart Control Learn button; move the relevant MIDI controller knob or button; turn off the Smart Control Learn button.

 

So MIDI controller —> Logic Pro Smart Control Mapping —> Helix Native Controller Assignments

 

Also — normally you want to use a separate CC# for any given control or function, rather than a single CC# with different values. In this case, you could use CC1 mapped to Snapshot 1; CC2 mapped to Snapshot 2; etc. (That's probably why you encountered the weird Snapshot problem using CC69 with different values.)

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

[Petes63Strat]

Hi soundog. Thanks for weighing in. I have tried the Smart Controls feature and also tried using separate CC#'s for each Snapshot. I still get the same results whether I use Smart Control or go directly through Learn, outside of Smart Control. The problem (from what I have read and experienced thus far) is that the Snapshots are recognized as a group only (or index) and cannot be programmed separately as taracatac outlines above.  Logic identifies them as "Snapshot Index" when I use the learn feature. If I use the learn feature with each of the 8 Snapshots (one at a time) they are ALL still identified simply as "Snapshot Index",  not "Snapshot #1" or 2 or 3, etc. I hope that makes sense.

 

At the very least I would have expected Line-6 to make the Snapshots easily programmable so that a player could work through them while laying down a track. I know there is a good argument for doing this in other ways, after all we are using sophisticated DAWs that allow us to piece things together.  The part that is frustrating is that others are able to use this Kontrol Rig 3 floor unit (and others units) with their DAW on a PC to change Snapshots but I can't find a way to make it work on my Mac Pro with Logic. That's a first for me.  Thanks again for your info!

[soundog]

That's interesting (and disappointing). I use Snapshot Indexes all the time in my automation lanes in Logic, though have never tried using them "real-time" using Smart Controls. If I free up some time this weekend, I'll see if I can find any sort of work around....

[rsvette12]

Thanks for helping out SD wish there was a windows version Logic Pro to have at it but thats not going to happen

[rsvette12]

Not sure maybe this can help ?

 

 

[Petes63Strat]

soundog. I would be so grateful if you could keep me in mind with any kind of solution or work-around. I have never been so stumped by something that should otherwise be relatively straight forward. Thanks again!

[rsvette12]

Heres another - maybe a setting in your preferences ?