Sorry dumb a$$ IR question by dumb a$$ 50 yr old user!

[niall182]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for the question as i'm sure its been asked. So apologies.

 

Long time L6 user first time Helix user..rack version, love it. Impulse Responses...my question: If I use an impulse response block, I assume I don't add it to a patch with a Amp & Cab block in use, or a patch which has separate Amp and Cab block...just use an Amp (amp on its own) block and then an impulse response block? Going into studio monitors and will go direct into house PA.

 

Just wanted to get a handle on how to use them in a very simple basic set up ie   wha>eq>Amp>IR>delay>reverb...NOT wha>eq>AMP+Cab>IR>delay>reverb.

 

Sorry for thick question, any basic help much appreciated. #

 

Thanks guys/gals.

 

[zolko60]

Think of Helix Amp block as of Amp. Cab or IR as a miced Cab. While monitoring miced cab through another cab can be creative idea, it could be shocking to the audience used to traditional electric guitar hearing perception. ;)
So yeah, wha>eq>Amp>IR>delay>reverb is quite safe path.

[DunedinDragon]

The easiest way to think of IRs is they are "pre-cooked" cabinets.  In other words when using a Helix cab block you specify what cabinet you want, what mic model you want to use with it, and where to position that mic relative to the speaker.  An IR has all of this sort of information already baked into it, but it can't be modified.  Therefore each variation of mic and mic position on a specific cabinet will be a different IR.

[niall182]

Hi Guys, thanks for the info. 

 

DunedinDragon: In one simple phrase you have expertly described what an IR is and what it does. Someone at L6 should take that phrase

 

'The easiest way to think of IRs is they are "pre-cooked" cabinets.  In other words when using a Helix cab block you specify what cabinet you want, what mic model you want to use with it, and where to position that mic relative to the speaker.  An IR has all of this sort of information already baked into it, but it can't be modified.  Therefore each variation of mic and mic position on a specific cabinet will be a different IR' 

 

and post it on their page for people like me, great explanation.

 

Also thank you Zolko60, glad i'm on the right lines!

 

Cheers\m/

[forasong]

Hey. I absolutely use IRs in addition to stock cabinets. The stock cabs do cool things with mic choices and early reflections etc. and something like a Michael BRITT IR can sound awesome. I regularly use both in a series. And feel free to swap em around. Remember, it’s all just tone sculpting, there is no right or wrong, but there is alike or not alike if you are trying to replicate a real amp. For instance, My high cut on both my IR and cab on my go to 65 deluxe reverb patch in helix is at 3.4 k. I set up an A/B switch with my actual vintage 65 deluxe and helix thru an alto 312. No effects just the dry amp sounds.It took about 3 hours of tweaking. But they are basically identical. Sitting side by side and tipped back right at me you can’t believe it’s really the original and then the model going back and forth with the A/B switch . Same with my 79 JCM 800 thru my mid 70’s 2x12. They are too close to even tell. Both use a stock cab plus a Michael brittt IR, plus hours of subtle eq shaping to achieve that, but you can get to the “ close your eyes and you can’t really tell the difference place” comboing cabs and IRs is a good way to get really close with less eq which is never as authentic if you really have to boost or cut to match. 

[arkieboy]

I wonder if the cab blocks aren't too much choice ...

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy that we have these blocks with lots of parameters, and they may be examples of wonderful audio programming, but there are a bunch of sweet spots for particular mics - usually at the cap-edge, 2" from the speaker for condenser mics, frequently closer for dynamic mics which you may also angle off axis - and 99% of the time these are what you use.

IR blocks use less resources, you only need a 1024 block for a cabinet IR and you can switch them out per snapshot in a preset. I have a bunch of Redwirez IRs for the typical cabs for my favourite amps and I seldom stray from those.

It's not as if I'm not adventurous - my live rig has a Roland VG99 and I've been doing guitar synths for 35 years near enough - but I wonder if they're a significant barrier to people getting to grips with the box.

 

(shrugs)

[DunedinDragon]

9 hours ago, arkieboy said:

I wonder if the cab blocks aren't too much choice ...

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy that we have these blocks with lots of parameters, and they may be examples of wonderful audio programming, but there are a bunch of sweet spots for particular mics - usually at the cap-edge, 2" from the speaker for condenser mics, frequently closer for dynamic mics which you may also angle off axis - and 99% of the time these are what you use.

IR blocks use less resources, you only need a 1024 block for a cabinet IR and you can switch them out per snapshot in a preset. I have a bunch of Redwirez IRs for the typical cabs for my favourite amps and I seldom stray from those.

It's not as if I'm not adventurous - my live rig has a Roland VG99 and I've been doing guitar synths for 35 years near enough - but I wonder if they're a significant barrier to people getting to grips with the box.

 

(shrugs)

 

This is exactly the reason I tend to prefer IRs.  I think it's entirely possible to get the same effect from the cab and mic blocks most of the time.  But as you mention, I tend to prefer pretty much the same general setup as far as mics used and mic positions most of the time, so why keep making those changes every time I use a cab block.  I just select the IR with the setup I prefer and I'm done.  Plus I get the advantage of being able to use IRs that have a larger combination of mics and mic positions on a single IR like in the Ownhammer massively multi-mic variations (up to six mics being used for the capture) for more exotic variations.

[arkieboy]

2 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

Plus I get the advantage of being able to use IRs that have a larger combination of mics and mic positions on a single IR like in the Ownhammer massively multi-mic variations (up to six mics being used for the capture) for more exotic variations.

I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to cabs and mic positions - which is why I feel like I've really fallen on my feet with Rewirez, they take an traditional engineer's approach to their IRs which suits me down to the ground - but I really should give some of these a go ...

[snfrd84]

I can't remember on what to set the hi and low cut for IR's. Using an LP as well, if that makes any difference. 

[DunedinDragon]

2 hours ago, snfrd84 said:

I can't remember on what to set the hi and low cut for IR's. Using an LP as well, if that makes any difference. 

 

That's because the high and low cuts aren't the same for all patches and are dependent on a number of factors in the patches including the type of cabinet, mic, and mic positions.  This is why you have those two things on the side of your head referred to as "ears".

 

[snfrd84]

23 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said:

 

That's because the high and low cuts aren't the same for all patches and are dependent on a number of factors in the patches including the type of cabinet, mic, and mic positions.  This is why you have those two things on the side of your head referred to as "ears".

Oh nice. Didnt know what those two "things" were. 

23 minutes ago, DunedinDragon said: