Amp's EQ doesn't effect as much as i think, please help!!!

[inqqqs]

Has anyone feel the same as me? I've been trying to find out what i'm doing on Helix is wrong or different from other users. Because when i adjusted EQs and some parameters in amp simulation on Helix, the sound is just slightly different. At the first time i plug Helix into return of an amp and use only amp simulation (without cab sim) which EQs in amp simulation doesn't effect that much and the sound is very different from real amp, too digital. So i decide to buy FRFR which is Headrush 112 and use IR. But i still feel that i need to cut some low and high frequency by global EQ to make the sound same as real amp and it makes EQs in amp simulation works much better. I still try to find sweet point of helix and have no idea for now. Can anyone please advise me how to get sound same as real amp?

[cruisinon2]

3 hours ago, inqqqs said:

Has anyone feel the same as me? I've been trying to find out what i'm doing on Helix is wrong or different from other users. Because when i adjusted EQs and some parameters in amp simulation on Helix, the sound is just slightly different. At the first time i plug Helix into return of an amp and use only amp simulation (without cab sim) which EQs in amp simulation doesn't effect that much and the sound is very different from real amp, too digital. So i decide to buy FRFR which is Headrush 112 and use IR. But i still feel that i need to cut some low and high frequency by global EQ to make the sound same as real amp and it makes EQs in amp simulation works much better. I still try to find sweet point of helix and have no idea for now. Can anyone please advise me how to get sound same as real amp?

 

High and low cuts are almost always a necessity, so you're on the right track... however it's best to stay away from the global EQ,  and use EQ block in each patch instead. Not all amp models will require the same cuts, so trying to do it globally will just create more problems. The global EQ is really for making minor tweaks for room acoustics, not for creating your tones. 

 

As for getting it to sound like a "real amp"... that's a touchier subject. The "amp in the room" sound that you're probably used to isn't really gonna happen. Helix is modeling not only an amp, but a mic-ed speaker cabinet as well. What you're going to hear is what you would get listening in a recording studio's control room: the sound of a mic-ed cabinet coming through studio monitors, with the added characteristics that a particular type of microphone adds to the tone. It takes some getting used to.

 

If you want a more familiar sound and feel, then the Powercab might be a better choice for you, as it can behave just like a "real amp", or as a more typical FRFR speaker, depending on the settings. 

[DunedinDragon]

As cruisinon2 states, you may need to reset your idea of what you're looking for.  When people talk about trying to achieve the "amp in the room" sound, they're talking about a sound that's never in the history of mankind ever been heard on a record, on the radio, on YouTube or in a live concert setting.  It's only been heard on stage, or at home, or in a music store standing next to an amp.  But as soon as that sound gets recorded or mic'd up to be played to a live audience, it changes into what everyone else is familiar with, which is a recorded amp.

If you can reset yourself to thinking about matching a normal recorded tone that you would hear on YouTube or any other medium, your more likely to begin to hear the potential.  This is why the Helix and other modelers have been so broadly embraced.  Not because I can emulate the sound I heard from Joe Walsh's amp, but I can emulate Joe Walsh's sound on the Eagle's recording of "One Of These Nights" or "Hotel California".

That being the case you can begin to understand exactly how important it is to get not just the amp right, but also the cabinet, the type of mics, and combination of mics and mic placements.  Those things play a MAJOR factor in achieving the sound you hear on recordings or in live concerts.  I'd suggest as a starting point using a dual cab setup in your patch with one cabinet using an 421 dynamic mic and the other cab using a 121 ribbon mic and play around with different distance parameters on each of the mics to see how it affects the sound.  The final stage after getting these things right is to adjust the high and low cuts, that's most easily accomplished with a parametric equalizer that applies to both cabinets and their mics.

 

[codamedia]

23 hours ago, DunedinDragon said:

When people talk about trying to achieve the "amp in the room" sound, they're talking about a sound that's never in the history of mankind ever been heard on a record, on the radio, on YouTube or in a live concert setting.  It's only been heard on stage, or at home, or in a music store standing next to an amp.  But as soon as that sound gets recorded or mic'd up to be played to a live audience, it changes into what everyone else is familiar with, which is a recorded amp.

 

That should be a sticky at the top of the forum! I can't tell you how many times I've tried to explain this to people, but never quite get it right :)

 

I visit the TDPRI (telecaster) forum on occasion, and in their amp section I often see the complete opposite problem. People are always wondering why they can't get the sound of their favorite guitar tone - even though they have the same guitar/amp. They fail to understand (or accept) they are missing the entire studio chain from their tone. 

[MLSoundLab]

I think you're asking multiple different questions that I would answer differently.

 

AMP EQ: If you've ever owned Marshall amps you'll know from experience that the EQ doesn't really do much unless you have a Silver Jubilee. With Marshalls it's usually more about the balance of master and drive and that'll give you brightness variations.

 

LOW CUT, HIGH CUT: There's no general rule of always using these. I recommend using them with a PA to get more volume with low cut, it'll give you more headroom. High cut will take care of some PA speakers nasty top end. I never ever ever use high or low cut on recordings. Your high end will be buried into cymbals and your low end will blend with bass. This obviously relies heavily on you using a good IR.