effectloop Effects loop not responding Mesa Boogie Triple Rec

[chrmsmith]

Hey Hey all, so the deal is I am a new user to the Helix floor. I just installed HX Edit and HX installer update 2.8. I am running the 4CM and using the recommended send and return setup I have seen in a few videos ->

AMP is a 2008 Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier

Using Send/Return #1

Guitar to Helix In Helix Send to the front of amp Amp loop send to Helix Return Amp return to Helix Out

All is good. I place an effects loop in the preset and set to loop #1. Get sound and all good. I place a distortion and chorus in front of the loop, all good there. Put a delay after the effect loop in the preset and ..... nothing. No effect can be heard. I turn the loop off and get no sound at all. So the question is, why can’t I hear my delay set in the loop? Is it normal to lose all sound when turning the loop off? If I have the distortion and chorus in the front should I at least hear that? I spent an hour moving cables around and screwing around with the Mesa foot-switch engaging the loop on and off, bypassing the loop, switching cables .. nothing seemed to work.

Any ideas?

This is step one, next is to set up MIDI switching to I can automatically switch channels but one thing at a time.

[rd2rk]

2 hours ago, chrmsmith said:

Hey Hey all, so the deal is I am a new user to the Helix floor. I just installed HX Edit and HX installer update 2.8. I am running the 4CM and using the recommended send and return setup I have seen in a few videos ->

AMP is a 2008 Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier

Using Send/Return #1

Guitar to Helix In Helix Send to the front of amp Amp loop send to Helix Return Amp return to Helix Out

All is good. I place an effects loop in the preset and set to loop #1. Get sound and all good. I place a distortion and chorus in front of the loop, all good there. Put a delay after the effect loop in the preset and ..... nothing. No effect can be heard. I turn the loop off and get no sound at all. So the question is, why can’t I hear my delay set in the loop? Is it normal to lose all sound when turning the loop off? If I have the distortion and chorus in the front should I at least hear that? I spent an hour moving cables around and screwing around with the Mesa foot-switch engaging the loop on and off, bypassing the loop, switching cables .. nothing seemed to work.

Any ideas?

This is step one, next is to set up MIDI switching to I can automatically switch channels but one thing at a time.

 

Attach a copy of your preset. I'll try it with my amp and see what's up.

[chrmsmith]

So I figured out that, all preset in the 4CM need an FX block. Dumb I know, but i just couldn't get it in my head that I couldn't just hit the front of the amp without this engaged. So now to the bigger issue, I'm just not getting any effect sound after my loop block. In front of the block, no issues, after the block... nothing. Both parallel effect mix knobs all the way up. Nothing... 

[rd2rk]

1 minute ago, chrmsmith said:

So I figured out that, all preset in the 4CM need an FX block. Dumb I know, but i just couldn't get it in my head that I couldn't just hit the front of the amp without this engaged. So now to the bigger issue, I'm just not getting any effect sound after my loop block. In front of the block, no issues, after the block... nothing. Both parallel effect mix knobs all the way up. Nothing... 

 

Second request - attach a copy of your preset.None of what you've said so far makes any sense at all to me. Trying the actual preset is the only way I can think of to help you.

[chrmsmith]

Sorry... heres a very clean tone example. 

Clean - Test.hlx

[chrmsmith]

I really appreciate your time. Tyring to troubleshoot if it's my loop, cabling or something up with the amp simultaneously. I ruled out cabling and tried all 4 HX send/return jacks. Hoping to rule out the HX. 

 

More info if needed:

 

Cabling:

Guitar to Helix In

Helix Send to front of amp

Amp loop send to Helix Return

Amp return to Helix Out

[rd2rk]

You said you were using FX Loop 1. That preset uses FX Loop 4. Try changing the FX Loop Block to FX Loop 1.

[chrmsmith]

That’s correct, when I created that export I was testing 4, but it’s always the same result no matter the loop used. So I switched back to 1, plugged into send and return jack 1 and same result. 

[rd2rk]

19 minutes ago, chrmsmith said:

That’s correct, when I created that export I was testing 4, but it’s always the same result no matter the loop used. So I switched back to 1, plugged into send and return jack 1 and same result. 

 

Send me the new preset. Again, makes no sense. All I did was change the FX Loop Block to 1 (the one I use) and it worked fine.

BTW - you DON'T need anything before the FX loop. It's nice to have something, just to see that both ends are working.

 

Here's a modified version to try. If this doesn't work, and you're wired correctly:

 

Guitar to Helix Guitar In

Helix FX Send 1 to Amp Instrument IN

Amp FX Send to Helix FX Return 1

Helix Left (MONO) 1/4" out to Amp FX Return 

 

Then back up your setlists (and global settings) and do a full reset (reboot holding 9 and 10).

 

If that doesn't work open a support ticket, something's broke.

 

Clean - Test.hlx

[rd2rk]

The only other thing I can think of is that the cables you're using for the FX Loop connections are defective, causing the amp to think there's nothing in it's FX Loop, and therefore passing the signal directly from it's preamp to it's power amp, bypassing the helix effects that come after the FX Loop block.

 

Or, the amp's FX Loop is broken  - is there an on/off switch for the FX Loop in the amp? If not, try putting some De-Oxit on a jack and plugging/unplugging it multiple times in both the amp's send and receive jacks.

[rd2rk]

The more I think about this, the more I think it's a physical FX Loop problem, not the Helix at all.

If you haven't yet done the whole annoying reset thing, first try the suggestions I made in the next post.

[chrmsmith]

I will do. Much appreciated. At least I know the preset works in your setup so I need to focus on the amp it self next. I’ll keep you posted, and thanks again for your time. 

[rd2rk]

I just looked at the Mesa manual. There's a switch that either puts the FX Loop always on or footswitch controlled. Make sure it's in the always on position.

There's also a LEVEL control and a MIX control.

[chrmsmith]

I do have both level and mix at 100%, I will control that send and return level in the helix loop instead. I will also try the loop to always on. 

 

One i I thing I noticed you said is that I don’t need anything before the effects loop. Would that not defeat the purpose of the 4CM? Putting overdrives hitting the front of the amp and then time based effects in the loop? Maybe I am misunderstanding how the helix uses the loop.

[chrmsmith]

Also, I’m using a 2008 Triple which is the non- watt selectable version that has the parallel effects loop. 

[rd2rk]

I would start with LEVEL in the middle (normal). Turn it UP if the signal seems weak, DOWN if it's overpowering. There are similar controls in Helix for it's end of the FX Loop.

 

10 minutes ago, chrmsmith said:

One i I thing I noticed you said is that I don’t need anything before the effects loop. Would that not defeat the purpose of the 4CM? Putting overdrives hitting the front of the amp and then time based effects in the loop? Maybe I am misunderstanding how the helix uses the loop.

 

Not at all. The idea is to get the Helix Send into the amp's Input. That puts the Amp's preamp in the loop, and gives you the option to use any Helix amp or preamp IN PLACE OF the Mesa preamp, just by assigning the same footswitch to the Helix amp/preamp as you've assigned to the Effect Loop Block, and saving the preset with the Helix amp/preamp OFF and the FX Loop Block ON. When you hit the switch to turn the FX Loop OFF it turns the Helix amp/preamp ON. Instant Marshall/Soldano/5150/Bogner/Engl - you get the picture - Helix provides the preamp tone, Mesa provides the power!.

 

Also, most people prefer most modulation effects before the preamp and, of course, that's where WAH and OD/Distortion effects typically go.

[chrmsmith]

Interesting, I hadn’t thought of that scenario! Once I can get the loop working I will definitely to experiment. I have a MIDI switch gizmo I need to get set up to switch channels from the helix and remove the Footswitch once I can figure everything else out. Thanks for the info!

[erniedenov]

On 9/6/2019 at 6:04 PM, rd2rk said:

The more I think about this, the more I think it's a physical FX Loop problem, not the Helix at all.

If you haven't yet done the whole annoying reset thing, first try the suggestions I made in the next post.

 

Have you tested the Recto's effects loop with another device; say a delay pedal? In the band I tour with, I use Mesa Triple Recto half stacks; rented from backline rental companies and I bring my Line 6 M13, using the 4 cable method. About a 1/4th of the time, the effects loop isn't working in one of the Rectos. Luckily, these companies usually have another backup Recto and usually that one's effects loop works. But it seems to be an issue with those amps. Sometimes it's as simple as a bad preamp tube, but not always.

 

For what it's worth, I'm thinking of eventually just using my Helix instead. Right now my luggage isn't big enough for HX floor; planning on getting a 28" suitcase soon.

[chrmsmith]

I'm hearing more and more that these FX loops are problematic in Mesa's. So I am fairly certain that it's on the amp end. While troubleshooting this weekend, my whole amp torpedoed and I've lost channel 1 and channel 2, barely a sound in channel 3. So I blew and tube or something. Seeing as I just retubed a few months back I'm hoping it's not something more sinister. I've been using my Mark V live and it's probably time to move that into the studio. Or just go directly through the helix. We have been using Fractal primarily and using this Triple Rec for live tracks in the mix, which I love. This 2008 Triple just has the magic and I'm super bummed it's giving me all sorts of issues. 

 

I appreciate all the help gents, and at least we got some archived info on the net about Mesa's and Helix as there isn't a ton out there. Once I get it figured out, I will update everyone.