HD500x through an analog mixer

[mr34h7jm]

Hi Everyone,

I Have a music room that consists of a HD500x, roland edrums, and a Tascam Model 24 analog mixer that has 2 EV xlz 12" powered speakers for outputting the sound.

My problem is that I cannot get a good guitar sound through the mixer (or my old Fostex digital mixer, which is why I got the new Tascam). I can XLR mono from the HD 500x to the EV Powered Speaker and get an amazing sound, but if I use the same 500x patch to the a mixer it sounds horrible (squished, harsh,thin, terrible...). I like high gain tones like the Bogner and Slo amoung others. There was a time when I could get an amazing tone just through 500x and powered speaker but when I hit a low B (especially with the neck pick up) my tweeters would rattle. After many years of cursing the HD series (my POD 2.0 always sounded great for what it was), I found that if I decreased the bass and treble setting on the powered speaker and lowered the 120hz db (I think) in the global EQ setting on the 500x, the rattle went away. I am concerned that if my speakers are eq'ed  for my guitar, that the drums, bass, vocal, mp3's... will not sound right. My first and foremost goal is great sounding guitar, then I can hone in on getting the other things to sound good and all blend in. I guess my question is, is there a way to make everything sound good? Bands do it every day, I know I'm missing something. Thanks in advance of any advice!

 

[hurghanico]

Add a MID FOCUS EQ just after the amp model in your POD patches.

(and don't limit your flat response speakers working also for the drums, voice, etc.)

 

MFEQ settings:

 

HP FREQ (useful to tame excessive Low End, farting speakers, etc.) = set it by ear, but something around 12% should be fine in most cases.

HP Q = leave it at 50% (which means steep cutting curve without emphasys around the cutting frequency).

LP FREQ (useful to get a more focused and warm sound, and to tame excessive harshness and fizziness) = set it by ear, IMO set it to not more than 70% and not less than 60%, in several cases I like values around 63-65%, in general it depends on the cab and mic models chosen.

LP Q = leave it at 50% (see HP Q reasons above).

GAIN = zero or maybe up to 10%, unless you need also some serious clean volume boosting.

 

The MID FOCUS EQ includes a High Pass Filters (sort of Low Cut) and a Low Pass filter (sort of High Cut).

IMO one of the most useful EQ FXs in the POD.

 

For a few more details see my post in my forum website:

https://allabouthd500x.altervista.org/allabouthd500x/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75

 

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[mr34h7jm]

Thanks for the reply!

I agree, the MFEQ is an awesome EQ.

[pianoguyy]

if it sounds ok into the speakers, but not so ok when you add a mixer before the speakers.... 

obviously the mixer is the problem

[hurghanico]

29 minutes ago, pianoguyy said:

if it sounds ok into the speakers

 

From what I understand, the OP has obtained a satisfying sound from the HD500X directly connected to the powered speaker after using the built-in equalization of the speaker to cut part of the Low and High Ends, and also by using the POD global eq for more cuttings.

 

But he would prefer not to use the speaker built-in eq because it would affect also the voice, drums, etc.

 

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[pianoguyy]

I didn't catch that part (other than for his low B string). I just saw that it sounded amazing direct to the speakers. 

[mr34h7jm]

Thanks for the replies,

 

Yes, I'm getting MONSTER high gain crystal clear tone going POD to powered speaker. Btw pianoguyy, the rattling of the tweeters was when I hit a low B note, just that note. Strange, but I fixed it.

I just bought a Tascam Model 24 mixer to interface with the Reaper DAW and have my edrums, bass, vocals, mp3's, etc..., all controlled by the mixer. I'm still researching, but if I could bypass the channel EQ on the mixer or figure out a way to get an "UN-effected" input channel, that should solve the problem. I don't think that's possible on the Tascam Model 24, but I'm still learning the unit (a very simple mixer to operate BTW).

I'm looking in to maybe trying Helix Native with Reaper, (although that has major drawbacks, i.e...no wah, vol, or stomp on off) or just going POD to Powered Speaker and mic'ing the guitar tone to the mixer.?????

Wish I could just plug the POD into the mixer without needing to be an aduio scientist to get it to sound good, should not be that complicated.

Thanks again pianoguyy and hurghanico for your concern!

 

 

[spaceatl]

try bypassing the MIC PRE on the Tascam...To do this, just use the 1/4" main out instead of the XLR....and you won't need a dummy plug anymore to make it mono...No real need for a mic pre and that is most likely where the color is coming from. If you use the 1/4" input and use a line level input....

[mr34h7jm]

I found a fix for my problem and wanted to share it for anyone who runs into this extremely frustrating issue.

 

I got an XLR to TRS cable (2 of them for L and R, but you could also just use 1). I plugged the end with the XLR into the pod and the TRS end into my mixer (stereo channel on my mixer that has L R inputs into one channel). That cleaned it up really good, although I'm not quite the the output to input levels are spot on where they should be, but it sounds a 1000x better than XLR from the POD to the XLR in to the mixer. Some how that lowered the signal level, although it dose not make sense.

 

I don't understand how having a POD with XLR out...to XLR in to mixer....to XLR out from MIXER...to XLR in to FRFR Powered speaker could sound so bad?

It was always a level issue(WAY TO HOT). I'm probably just not understanding signal levels but again it doesn't make sense.

 

 So again, XLR to TRS did the trick! Hope it helps someone!

 

[mr34h7jm]

OK...OK ...Okay!

To all those looking for high gain, that have been Cursed by owning a HD500-x. I have finally after 6 F**king years found the solution.

1. On a mixer, run the left XLR (from the hd500x) into a Stereo channel XLR (stereo channels typically have one XLR and 2 TRS L/R inputs).

2. Run the right XLR to an adjacent XLR stereo channel. 

This is all due to how the HD500x signal is split. Channel A is Stereo (mono + Mono B) and Channel B is Stereo (mono A + mono B).

You have to use an extra stereo channel for L/R but it actually sounds correct!

Keep each channel panned center (L/R) on the mixer due to the way the signal chain in the 500x is configured.

So, XLR L into one stereo channel and XLR R into another stereo channel, both panned center on the mixer. it will be panned L/R in the HD500x mixer settings, this is correct!

I Hope this helps!

[pianoguyy]

so, basically... you had a phase issue

 

 

[mr34h7jm]

So piano guy...1. All one has to do is a quick Google search on worst POD series ever and the HD500x wins hands down.

2.  The unit does sound good when connected properly but is SO counter intuitive to figure out. 

3. Who would have ever thought connecting the L and R out of the POD in to the L/R in on a stereo channel of a mixer would be out of phase? No. You need TWO STEREO channels. The 500x was a disaster to figure out and nowhere did Line6 bother to assist in helping out its loyal user's.

4. The whole purpose of me following up on my own post is to help the many people who are trying to figure out this monstrosity of an effects processor, to which for 100-200 bucks one can buy and is a pretty legit deal compared to 1800 for a helix - If only someone can connect it some form of amplification and it not sound like garbage.

Again, it should not be such a pain to get a good sound from this unit. I hope this helps someone.

[hurghanico]

4 hours ago, mr34h7jm said:

Who would have ever thought connecting the L and R out of the POD in to the L/R in on a stereo channel of a mixer would be out of phase? No. You need TWO STEREO channels.

 

I use the HD500 several years now and never had the problem you described in this thread.

I'm glad you found the solution to your problem, but saying that the Left and Right outputs of the POD are out of phase to each other is IMO (unintentional) misinformation.

 

If as I did many times I connect the POD Left output to a mono channel of the PA mixer panned Left and the Right output to another mono channel panned Right, I get exactly the sound (stereo) I expect to hear, and the same thing happens if I decide to go mono and I connect only 1 jack output to 1 mono channel of the PA mixer panned center.

 

You said that you need 2 stereo channels (?!?) to get the POD sound as it should be... to be honest I disagree with this method, but if this solution worked for you with your equipment that's perfectly ok, but it is certainly not a rule that everyone should follow in order to get good results.

 

------------------------

 

Just a little theory doesn't hurt..

 

normally if you have a stereo signal there are two ways to connect it properly to a mixer equipped both with stereo and mono channels:

- If you choose the stereo channel way (less usual I would say) you need to have a 2-mono-into-1-stereo cable that connects the 2 mono outputs of the POD to 1 single stereo channel of the mixer, and its "balance" (not "pan" in this case) control set in the center would replicate in the PA exactly what comes out from the POD.

- The other way (if there are enough free channels left) is to connect each of the 2 outputs of the POD to its own mono channel, panned to the same side of origin (left to left and right to right).

If you want to use instead 1 single but complete/full mono signal (probably the most common connection method), simply connect 1 single jack output (do not do it with 1 XLR only) of the POD to a mono channel of the mixer panned in the center to have the same power on both PA speakers.

(Only the jack outputs of the POD have the peculiarity of automatically summing/mixing L and R when only 1 of them is connected).

 

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[mr34h7jm]

hurghanico, Thanks for the reply!

 

pianoguy responded to my issue above saying "so, basically... you had a phase issue". I never claimed that. My whole goal was to get this thing to sound proper through a mixer out through powered speakers. A seemingly simple task but not.

 

As far as panning left and right with mono channels on a PA mixer or any other mixer (I have tried 3, Yamaha powered PA through passive speakers, Fostex V160 through EV powered speakers, and a Tascam model 24 through the same EV powered speakers) I could not get it to sound good with high gain amp models. Clean models were OK at best but again high gain was awful.

They make Stereo Channels on mixers for a reason, they are obviously different than regular standard mono channels (Not Saying That You Don't Know This!) and your lucky if you get more than 1 or 2 on a lot of affordable mixer's.

 

I believe why this works and to my initial point, this makes my head spin, it shouldn't this much of a pain is....Path A on the POD is Mono A + Mono B. That's a "Stereo" (But not TRUE stereo I gather from reading some of yours and others Previous Posts) signal out of the L XLR on the POD. Then, Path B is the same  - Mono A + Mono B coming out of the R XLR on the POD.

 

Also make sure your AMP Model is not after the A/B split or your will lose 6bd (As I've also read in a previous post where you hashed it out with someone else).

 

Running POD LEFT XLR into a STEREO channel on a mixer Panned CENTER allows Path A (BOTH Mono A and Mono B )from the POD to not be "SUMMED", hence the "FIZZY" "THIN" TINNY" sound. Same goes for the Right XLR out of the POD BUT Into the XLR of A Different Stereo Channel (Panned center) on the Mixer.

 

I'm Telling You, WOW! the 500x really shines now. I bought the HD Bean in 2014 thinking it would be a huge upgrade from my 2.0 that I bought in 2001. I could never get the HD bean to sound good through amplification. So I bought a PROx, still sounded bad. Then I bought a 500x for $100 of Craigslist, still sounded bad. Point is I wasted over 6 YEARS of good guitar sound and countless hours trying to figure this thing out, purely because of my faith in the POD 2.0 (ran through a Pioneer stereo amp and Bose 301's, sounded amazing) that I had for years and never let me down.

 

hurghanico, Do You use high gain amp Models, e.g...Bogner, Plexi's J800...? Will you try the method I described using a Bogner, Plexi, or other high gain model and see if it makes a difference?

 

Trust me I've been playing for years and I know how a high gain amp sounds! It's not rocket science - it either sounds good or bad. I know mixer's may differ by manufacturer but I just can't see striking out 3 in a row.

 

There are countless people who have this same issue. If this helps someone please comment and share how it helped you and hopefully others.

 

P.S.

I did not spend all this time posting this to be a Line6 "Forum Dude", responding with BULLS** to every single post to the forum. I truly hope this helps people looking for AWESOME high gain tone!  $100 - 200 used all day long, Yes, (after 6 f**ing years :) the 500x finally has my endorsement!

 

 

[pianoguyy]

6 years of whining... 

solved in 1 month

 

 

[pianoguyy]

Always remember just one thing about this 'worse product ever'... 

 

 

I am the one with the Grammy. 

[hurghanico]

1 hour ago, mr34h7jm said:

Running POD LEFT XLR into a STEREO channel on a mixer Panned CENTER allows Path A (BOTH Mono A and Mono B )from the POD to not be "SUMMED", hence the "FIZZY" "THIN" TINNY" sound. Same goes for the Right XLR out of the POD BUT Into the XLR of A Different Stereo Channel (Panned center) on the Mixer.

 

I'm sorry to repeat myself but this is the last time, I swear.

Connecting just 1 (mono) side (L or R) of a dual mono/stereo signal to a mixer stereo channel doesn't make sense for me, you can do it, but it is simply useless.

1 stereo channel expects 2 sides L & R signal, and it keeps always both sides separated, its balance control serves only to decide how much loud should be each side relative to the other one, stop.

 

I have already explained in detail in my previous post how I make the connections and I have always obtained excellent results.

 

 

1 hour ago, mr34h7jm said:

hurghanico, Do You use high gain amp Models, e.g...Bogner, Plexi's J800...? Will you try the method I described using a Bogner, Plexi, or other high gain model and see if it makes a difference?

 

Yes, I use also high gain amp models and I like the results.

Honestly I will not try your method since mine (and countless other people) already works great, and it is also 100% logical.

 

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[mr34h7jm]

piano guy

tell us how you got your grammy with the pod? care to share?

how do your run your sound? amps? Powered speakers? Mixer's? DAW'S?

What's your gear?

 

[mr34h7jm]

hurghanico

Then why are there stereo channels on mixers? Why not just make them all mono channel's?

[mr34h7jm]

BTW,

piano guy

 

Tell us the "Grammy" you won big shot.

I, Personally Don't think anyone talented enough to win a Grammy would be BS replying to someone looking to help fellow Line6 user's.

 

Again tell us.

Are you a Mumble Rap Grammy Winner? Doja Cat? Luke Bryan? Florida Georgia Line?

Oh I Know....Taylor Swift?

[hurghanico]

9 hours ago, mr34h7jm said:

hurghanico

Then why are there stereo channels on mixers? Why not just make them all mono channel's?

 

The stereo channel is made to receive a dual L&R signal and keep the 2 sides separate, usually a stereo channel is provided with 1 single stereo input (so you use just 1 stereo ending cable, to be precise in this case a 2-mono-in-1-stereo cable), and the cable used to connect to it should bring both L & R sides of the signal.

(Connecting a single XLR (which carries only one side of the dual signal) from the POD to a stereo channel is unnecessary or the waste of a stereo channel for no reason).

 

So the only advantage of a stereo channel is that you use just 1 channel to serve 2 separate signals (L & R).

 

If there are not stereo channels available or you simply don't want to use it (very common case) but you want your signal in stereo through the PA, the other very common way is to use 2 mono channels, one panned to the left and the other to the right, very simple and effective.

 

But very often if you don't mind being mono but still want a good sound, only one jack (not XLR) from the POD to a mono channel panned center in the mixer is all you need.

 

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[mr34h7jm]

Thanks again for the reply hurghanico

 

I have tried connecting the POD the way you just described above and every other imaginable configuration countless times and it never sounded right.

If it sounds good for you then that's all that matters. Maybe your brand/model of mixer is higher quality than the one's I've tried?

I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, only share what I discovered.

 

And again, after trying every type of connection+setting+configuration just short of selling my soul, it never sounded right.

When I made the connections I mentioned above, it just sounded right. And wow does it sound good. That's the whole point, for it to sound good.

 

Also, to clarify something for my initial post, I now like that I can use the EQ on my mixer channel to give the mid's a final boost. Cuts right through and I can keep my signal chain to a minimum. When my connections were wrong I thought it was the EQ on the mixer over loading the signal, nope just the wrong connections for my gear.

 

Thanks again, and Happy Shredding!

  

[hurghanico]

5 minutes ago, mr34h7jm said:

When I made the connections I mentioned above, it just sounded right. And wow does it sound good. That's the whole point, for it to sound good.

 

That's the final goal for sure: to be happy with your final sound!.. all that matters!

Enjoy your POD and good luck!

 

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